Would you take the plane?

[taters]

I think its funny when someone says they can fly the plane better then the computer!! ahahahahah... Love that, "I AM as good as the 'puter".
Sorry, but no ur not!!

Ya I do too!!!! So funny that some pilots actually have this thing called skills.
Sorry but this impossible feat you mention is not hard at all and shouldn't be for you either.


Scary comments on this thread....

 

[Abernathy]

Some of you guys are nuts. Do you really want to be in the back of a jet with the average pilot out there (many of whom were hired with 200-500hrs TT at the age of maybe 20) on a plane without any of the technology we've had for the past what, 80 years, and fly into hard IFR using skills that haven't been practiced and maintain in perhaps years?

The crew in BUF had all the automation in hard IFR and icing and still landed upside down on a house. We still have crews that can't fly an RNAV and can't set the flaps for takeoff and pull weeds out on rotation.

Not everyone is "Sully".. The automation wasn't created for the Sully's out there. It was created for the average joe/jane to keep them from killing their pax. Crews shouldn't really be given the option to accept a jet without at least the FD into known instrument approach situation from an operational standpoint. It's a huge liability. And we all know we have a few gems here that would do some damage under those conditions.

 

[jetRAT]

I don't really think it's nuts for an 'average' pilot to be able to hand fly an ILS to minimums, much less 1.5 vis. As a pax, i would expect that every comm. pilot has this ability as a minimum skill. If you can't do that, then you don't belong behind the controls.

 

[shelton]

Two of the highest deviations in the ASAP program are lateral and altitude. Most of those crews probably have the AP and FD available to them. Are they all poor pilots who should hand fly more? No. It includes all of us--those who hand fly and those who don't. Should we be able to fly with both inop? Yes. Am I going to do it on purpose with that weather? Nope, it isn't prudent.

I have flown with both captains and fos, good pilots, bad pilots, instructors, and chief pilots. No one can operate the plane as effectively as when they have an autopilot. Why? Because it reduces workload so that when something else requires more attention the pilot can give it.

I really think we are to the point in aviation where we have no business deferring two things, autopilots and TCAS. I'm sure some of you will now argue about how your eyes are better than TCAS given your heightened state of situational awareness. After all, those freight planes didn't have them and we all survived.

 

[kf4amu]

Some of you guys are nuts. Do you really want to be in the back of a jet with the average pilot out there (many of whom were hired with 200-500hrs TT at the age of maybe 20) on a plane without any of the technology we've had for the past what, 80 years, and fly into hard IFR using skills that haven't been practiced and maintain in perhaps years?

Maybe we should be practicing those hard IFR skills on a regular basis, so when the time comes to use them we can?

 

[Yodafly]

Yes I would take it. Not sure what the problem is, just fly the plane. If you find that the two of you can't fly the plane then divert to somewhere with good weather.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

I really think we are to the point in aviation where we have no business deferring two things, autopilots and TCAS. I'm sure some of you will now argue about how your eyes are better than TCAS given your heightened state of situational awareness. After all, those freight planes didn't have them and we all survived.

A GIA Captain was fired for refusing an inop TCAS, not too long ago. There may have been some politics involved, though. He's since been reinstated.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Some of you guys are nuts. Do you really want to be in the back of a jet with the average pilot out there (many of whom were hired with 200-500hrs TT at the age of maybe 20) on a plane without any of the technology we've had for the past what, 80 years, and fly into hard IFR using skills that haven't been practiced and maintain in perhaps years?

The crew in BUF had all the automation in hard IFR and icing and still landed upside down on a house. We still have crews that can't fly an RNAV and can't set the flaps for takeoff and pull weeds out on rotation.

Not everyone is "Sully".. The automation wasn't created for the Sully's out there. It was created for the average joe/jane to keep them from killing their pax. Crews shouldn't really be given the option to accept a jet without at least the FD into known instrument approach situation from an operational standpoint. It's a huge liability. And we all know we have a few gems here that would do some damage under those conditions.

Well then quit hiring pilots who can't fly....The damn autopilot can't even track the LOC with a crosswind.....Fly the airplane....it's no different than any other airplane......

What would happen with these folks with the Bandit and 14 hour days without autopilots, FD's, and HSI's.....

Sorry...getting tired of the whining....

 

[crj567]

What would happen with these folks with the Bandit and 14 hour days without autopilots, FD's, and HSI's.....

"Uphill, both ways in the snow-with a poodle latched on to my left testicle."

-Yeah, we heard it all before, Joe.... We still don't care.

 

[Nindiri]

What I find amusing is how many of the pilots thumping their chests in this thread and bragging about "real" pilots flying raw data approaches to mins by braille are the same guys whining in the "Age 65" threads about safety and nearly pissing their pants at just the remote possibility that an over-60 captain might die and leave them alone in the cockpit.

 

[BigPappa]

The vast majority of posters on this thread would never have passed training at Great Lakes. How many fatal accidents has Great Lakes been found at fault for....hmm... They routinely have 1500hr captains flying with 250hr FOs. They fly in the Rockies. The answer to the previous question: ZERO.

ahhhhhh, Yawn........

 

[Abernathy]

Well then quit hiring pilots who can't fly....The damn autopilot can't even track the LOC with a crosswind.....Fly the airplane....it's no different than any other airplane......

What would happen with these folks with the Bandit and 14 hour days without autopilots, FD's, and HSI's.....

Sorry...getting tired of the whining....

I'm not behind the hiring process, Joe. I agree with you sentiment but wtf am I supposed to do about it.. Just stating my views on it. It's called "reality," not something guys on the right side of the spectrum are used to accepting

 

[buscap]

Well, opinions and buttholes?

Everyone is ignoring the main issue. Like I said before, as originally stated, the scenario is legal and safe-just not as safe as a perfect plane-but no big deal.

The question is whether or not you would take it? And that is a question we quite often find ourselves asking. Some pilots refuse a defered APU or single PACK CRJ200 when it's hot. Is it legal? Is it safe? Everyone agrees it's legal, but some refuse based on safety concerns for heatstroked passengers and crew.

And while the heat stroked safety concern is valid, what about the millions of passengers hauled all over Texas in Bandits? I was not there, but I've never heard of a Bandit actually killing anyone in August.

Additionally, I find it ironic that some of the "old timers" calling the no-go voters weak sisters, are some of the most militant when it comes to defered APUs or PACKS.

It comes down to what you feel like doing and whether or not you feel the company has your back. On the autopilot/flight director issue, the company can't help you much anyway, if there's some kind of altitude or lateral deviation.

And another point is that the CRJ is one unstable-pitchy-pain in the butt in level flight. A short flight is not an issue. Just plan your climb and descent to minimize level flight. The approaches are definitely none issues.

But if you've had one of those days, or weeks, and the company is being a multifaceted jerk, say no. You're not being a wuss. You just may not be in the mood to work that hard or risk your papers. Good comes around and ASA management has not earned much good lately.

 

[Abernathy]

Good comes around and ASA management has not earned much good lately.

Yep .

 

[blesko]

Well, opinions and buttholes?

Everyone is ignoring the main issue. Like I said before, as originally stated, the scenario is legal and safe-just not as safe as a perfect plane-but no big deal.

The question is whether or not you would take it? And that is a question we quite often find ourselves asking. Some pilots refuse a defered APU or single PACK CRJ200 when it's hot. Is it legal? Is it safe? Everyone agrees it's legal, but some refuse based on safety concerns for heatstroked passengers and crew.

And while the heat stroked safety concern is valid, what about the millions of passengers hauled all over Texas in Bandits? I was not there, but I've never heard of a Bandit actually killing anyone in August.

Additionally, I find it ironic that some of the "old timers" calling the no-go voters weak sisters, are some of the most militant when it comes to defered APUs or PACKS.

It comes down to what you feel like doing and whether or not you feel the company has your back. On the autopilot/flight director issue, the company can't help you much anyway, if there's some kind of altitude or lateral deviation.

And another point is that the CRJ is one unstable-pitchy-pain in the butt in level flight. A short flight is not an issue. Just plan your climb and descent to minimize level flight. The approaches are definitely none issues.

But if you've had one of those days, or weeks, and the company is being a multifaceted jerk, say no. You're not being a wuss. You just may not be in the mood to work that hard or risk your papers. Good comes around and ASA management has not earned much good lately.

Hauling people around texas in bandits 25 years ago is irrevalent. Lawyers have stepped and and killed it. Deferred pack, no APU in the summertime, plane doesnt go. The subsequent lawsuit is not worth it. Thats judgement. There was an outcry due to lack of judgement on the Expressjet captain that diverted to an outstation where there was no ground support and left the pax on the plane all night long. Common thread, pax convienence and comfort. Remember, they pay your salary. If they aren't there, you aren't there in some degree. Those of us that have been in the 91/135 world, we get it. Deferred F/D and autopilot, fly the damn airplane.

 

[CX880]

What if the autopilot worked by the F/D was inop... ASA FOs would you take it? Discuss. Assuming the company was good to you that week.

 

[jws717]

If you can't fly an approach down to mins with max x-wind component raw data, you should not have an instrument rating.

 

[sunlitpath]

Yes I would take it. Not sure what the problem is, just fly the plane. If you find that the two of you can't fly the plane then divert to somewhere with good weather.

Straight up...

 

[bogey383]

would depend on the alternates and the wx there. not to mention how many legs that day. if i was just signing in first leg, then yes. after one or two turns possibly not. would depend on the day.

 

[Kaman]

This discussion is getting quite boring now...