Would you take the plane?

[SLUF4]

We aren't even allowed to fly raw data on RNAV departures-why do you think that is? It's because the workload is too high and people flying raw data were screwing it up. All I'm saying is that in some instances it would be a good idea to reject the plane. Which airplane would you say is more safe-the one with the AP/FD or the one without?

 

[bgaviator]

You're capt of CRJ200. Weather at destination is showing 200 ft ceilings and 1 1/2 mile vis. X-wind of 10 knts gusting to 15. Autopilot and flight director deferred. 380 nm flight. ILS fully operational on all runways. Would you take the airplane?

Being a dispatcher, that seems like some piss poor planning on the part of whoever routes the lines.....but unfortunately I have seen it happen some cases.

 

[sayrejm]

It goes like this: 30 miles out, "cleared direct Broad River, Cleared ILS 16, radar service terminated, report down time on Atlanta Center freuency XXX".

This was response to CX 880 saying no one ever uses NDBs in real life.

Lynxman, go ahead and expand on your thought... so female pilots are inferior? Really?

He didn't say no one uses the NDB, he said no one does an NDB approach. Also, we do that in FMS white needles anyway.

 

[CA1900]

Which airplane would you say is more safe-the one with the AP/FD or the one without?

Why even have an MEL, then?

 

[Kaman]

What's the problem? Can the AP/FD be deferred? If the answer is yes...my answer is..."board em' up and let's go". That kind of weather is not unusual in the Northeast, and 380 miles sounds like a 90 minute block in a CRJ...In fact, I'd have the FO fly the leg so I could monitor more effectively.

 

[MikeSF340]

I agree that the flight director is much more of an issue than the autopilot. I would probably take the flight with a VERY solid alternate and I would be one and done on the approach. If I didn't get in on the first try I would be out of there and wouldn't force the issue. I don't remember the last time I shot a raw data ILS in the sim.

 

[ackattacker]

If you feel a flight is "unsafe" without a FD it's time to stop and re-evaluate what you are doing with your life. Are you a pilot or just the headset spreader installed between the computer and the yoke? Seriously. Are you going to declare an emergency if the black box craps out in flight?

I understand that some of you don't get a lot of raw-data time due to SOP's at your airline. That's an issue to take up with your training department. Honesty is good, recognizing your limitations is good; however, if you recognize that you can't safely fly a raw data ILS then the proper response is to *rectify* the situation, not just refuse airplanes when it comes up. Whatever it takes at your airline.

Even if you are out of practice in raw data, presumably you have somebody else there to back you up, call out deviations, and have the professionalism to go around if you exceed stable approach criteria. A few such events may convince your training department that they need to re-institute a focus on basic hand-flying skills before they end up with another Buffalo crash.

 

[Flyer1015]

Sadly, there are CAs who *refuse* to let [any and all] FOs from handflying raw data, and do not do it themselves either.

 

[screamingpax]

Since when has hand flying an airplane to low weather been a no go thing. Man that is pathetic. If you have an ok alternate near by and the other crew member can do their job properly then, yeah! I would take it. We are supposed to be pilots. What would you do if you flew a real airplane with steam gauges and no autopilot? Refuse it everytime?

 

[ackattacker]

I think its funny when someone says they can fly the plane better then the computer!! ahahahahah... Love that, "I AM as good as the 'puter".
Sorry, but no ur not!!

I feel like I need to address this... I'm one of those guys who turns the AP off most of the time unless it's just mindless droning in cruise. I cannot hold altitude in smooth air as good as the autopilot, because if I'm not really focusing I'll drift up and down 20-30 feet before correcting.

Also the autopilot doesn't make mistakes like blow through a preset altitude or heading, which can happen if you are hand-flying and get distracted.

However if I'm focusing I can fly an ILS better than the autopilot, no question about it, particularly if it's windy or turbulent. It's just a fact. I can take into account factors the autopilot can't, such as local weather patterns and wind shifts, configuration and power changes, etc, tight vectors, etc.

I have shot probably over 1000 ILS approaches, mostly hand flown, in all different kinds of aircraft from GA to RJ's. This is not bragging, just pointing out that some of us are out there doing it, and quite safely thank you very much. When somebody says "no way you're as good as the computer" that sounds like a cop-out to me. Why aren't you that good? You *can* be.