Would SKYW inc trade ASA PBS and dumping ALPA for 1 list?

[Erlanger]

and what seniority are you erlanger?

Not sure that matters. Everyone holds so dearly their senority when it comes to jumpseating or non-reving, upgrades and transitions, furloughs, domicile transfers, bonuses and 401k contributions, vacation and sicktime accrual, etc. God forbid if senority isn't honored properly in those cases. Why should schedule bidding be any different?

 

[Erlanger]

The "other" way I used to get 18 and 19 days off every month with 90 to 97 hour lines...with PBS this month I have the same days off as a reserve line holder in order to get 94 hours credit! You do the math...?

Are you Skywest? If you are then your schedule is so we don't have to furlough any pilots. Suck it up for a while till things get back to normal or should we throw our fellow pilots under the bus? BTW, under the "other" way the schedules would of changed to suit these times anyway. You'd still then have the same schedule, hours and days off.

 

[Gr82Aviate]

Are you Skywest? If you are then your schedule is so we don't have to furlough any pilots. Suck it up for a while till things get back to normal or should we throw our fellow pilots under the bus? BTW, under the "other" way the schedules would of changed to suit these times anyway. You'd still then have the same schedule, hours and days off.

Not true, there are guys far junior to me in other domicles getting far better pairings on a regular basis! I'd be happy to "suck it up" if we all did so equally, but that is not the case. The pairings for us have been sliding in quality ever since the switch to PBS, it has little to do with "these times". Have you been getting lines with either almost the same days off as pre PBS hard lines but the same pay as reserve, or the flip side of trying to keep your pay close to what it used to be and getting the same days off as a guy on reserve?

 

[Speedtape]

ASA is shrinking, Skywest is not. ASA = 1500 active pilots, Skywest = 2800 active pilots. The Skywest pilot group has grown by hundreds over the past 3 years. The ASA pilot group has shrunk. ASA has 140 pilots on furlough, Skwest has 0 pilots on furlough. ASA(Skywest, Inc.) has lost contract rights with Delta on 20 crj 200You failed to mention that they gained 10, 900's ((lost 1000 seats, gained 760 netting -240 seats) aircraft. Skywest has not lost contract rights(Skywest, Inc lost) on Delta aircraft.(HUH?) From a business standpoint, ASA is giant pain in the ass(MONEY MAKER) to Skywest INC. Wake up!(I'm awake, but not brain dead) Ask US Air pilots if ALPA is useful...(There will be another ALPA vote in the near future and that will answer your question.)[/QUOTE]

What Skywest are you referring to in your post? Skywest, Inc. has lost almost everything that ASA has lost. ASA has shrunk because flight hours have been reduced in ATL--it's the economy!

Skywest has not furloughed--yet. Delta has not furloughed--yet. It may be because they are expecting a couple of airline failures in the next several months and want to be prepared to exploit the opportunity. However, if that does not happen, you will see furloughs.


I'm glad you brought up the US Air pilots. They demanded arbitration, and arbitration they got. Unfortunately, they didn't like the outcome. An Arbitrator's ruling is final. They will never overturn it.

ALPA cannot be blamed for the ruling. If anyone can be blamed, it would be the negotiators from both pilot groups who could not find common ground which forced their fate into the hands of someone who has no vested interest in their futures or the outcome. The representatives of the respective pilot groups lost control of the process--through their own doing or undoing, depending how one wants to look at it.

Before it's over, USAir Pilots will be back in ALPA. My bet is that it will happen within the next 3 years.

 

[JumpersAway]

There are a few key points I'd like to throw into the pot here, that I think are getting overlooked......

Firstly, if ASA were going away, I think management would be far less delicate in their approach. I think it would be done with an ax, and they would just start transferring airframes without regard for the contract. Right now, as it stands, the contract is in place and management has every intention of abiding by it- especially with regard to the no furlough clause- as was stated by SH in recurrent ground a couple weeks ago. If we were going away, it would be done now, without regard...........

PBS- I don't care what method determines my schedule, provided I can still snag the a couple extra weeks off in conjunction with my vacation time. If management wanted PBS, they would simply make the lines so bad, you'd be crying for it. Can you say "Five Day Trips"........ The company builds the pairings, so they effectively control the end game. PBS only makes sense with a big hiring swell- being able to do more with less.

Being called a scab without crossing a picket line is a little harsh. I will also agree that there is an appropriate way to disagree with ALPA- how bout' through a letter or a face to face meeting with the MEC/LEC. They may work for ALPA, but they work there for US. If you don't like something, or have a concern, bring it up at a meeting. It's entirely possible that when you are done, you won't be the most popular pilot in the room, but sometimes leadership and dissention come at a cost.

I also think that we are putting the cart before the horse here. Alot of people see our furloughs and point to SkyWest and wonder "Why not them?". The circus isn't over yet, and it's entirely possible they too, will come out battered and bruised following the airline downturn. They are already poising to furlough through various offerings. This fall will be the tell all. As far as SkyWest in Atlanta- I expect to see them here for a month or two, then they will be off to their side of the Mississippi, and we will continue to maintain the status quo.

Once again, I'm thinking that a lot of our future here, has to do with Pinnicle and their contract. We all need to be informed on this, and watching to see how this plays out.

 

[FightingIrish]

Regional pilots cannot negotiate for their mainline flying. That is the purvue of the regional management with the mainline management within the confines of whatever scope the mainline pilots negotiated or didnt negotiate for. Its not a very hard concept in my humble opinion.

Comair has it in their scope section. Look it up. How did they get it?

For argument sake, let's just say you are right. We know Jerry can and has negotiated for it. If you say ALPA can't, and we know Jerry can. Maybe we should be careful about overplaying our perceived power as a union and form a mutually beneficial partnership with Jerry.

To Jumpers point regarding Pinnacle. He is right. Initial reports in the "inner circle" is that it is less than ASA with a single list between Colgan/Pinnacle. If that is the case, then as Jumper points out, we will need to change our plans. Some of our hard working ASA ALPA folks are not real happy about the initial reports. It will put more pressure on us. It is going to look bad when Skywest has higher rates than newly negotiated ALPA rates with a Democratic NMB and a Democratic Administration.

On the PBS issue. Both sides have agreed on most everything. The big hold up is that the union wants about half of the money savings in improvements. The company won't agree to that.

 

[73belair]

Once again, I'm thinking that a lot of our future here, has to do with Pinnicle and their contract. We all need to be informed on this, and watching to see how this plays out.

I'd put money on it being worse in a lot of areas than ASA's. 75% pay for deadhead alone is nonsense. (if that is actually in there) This will be a BIG failure for ALPA if its not at least as good as ASA's

 

[SSDD]

But you know that Rez and PCL will spin it, and justity it, and somehow blame Skywest pilots for the failure.

 

[Nevets]

I will also agree that there is an appropriate way to disagree with ALPA- how bout' through a letter or a face to face meeting with the MEC/LEC. They may work for ALPA, but they work there for US. If you don't like something, or have a concern, bring it up at a meeting. It's entirely possible that when you are done, you won't be the most popular pilot in the room, but sometimes leadership and dissention come at a cost.

Or better yet, recall them.

Comair has it in their scope section. Look it up. How did they get it?

For argument sake, let's just say you are right. We know Jerry can and has negotiated for it. If you say ALPA can't, and we know Jerry can. Maybe we should be careful about overplaying our perceived power as a union and form a mutually beneficial partnership with Jerry.

If Comair has it in their scope, its only because DALPA and their managment has allowed it through their contract AND the Comair MEC used negotiating capital to attain it. Anyways, DALPA can recapture that through negotiations without regard to Comair MEC contract language. Please provide the Comair contract language, thanks.

Just because you are union, does not mean you cannot form a mutually beneficially partnership with management, like SWA for example. In fact, I would go as far as saying that you cannot have a credible partnership of any kind unless you are represented by a bargaining agent recognized by the NMB.

 

[Bako Cap]

I will take ONE LIST, with some base fences, and ALPA (if I have to) after a certification vote for the whole group. I will gladly swallow my pride in accepting the PFT'ers that would be senior to me. ONE LIST is more important to our pilot groups that most care to acknowledge, ALPA or not.

PBS is another matter. It takes a bit to figure out how not to screw yourself, but I would never choose to go back to hard lines.

 

[JumpersAway]

I will take ONE LIST, with some base fences, and ALPA (if I have to) after a certification vote for the whole group. I will gladly swallow my pride in accepting the PFT'ers that would be senior to me. ONE LIST is more important to our pilot groups that most care to acknowledge, ALPA or not.

PBS is another matter. It takes a bit to figure out how not to screw yourself, but I would never choose to go back to hard lines.

I agree that one list should be a top priority- for both management as well as our respective pilot groups. However, since I haven't heard of rumblings from either one of the two management groups to indicate intrest from INC., I'd have to say this whole discussion is moot. As far as ALPA- I could take it or leave it, either way. I'm looking for effectiveness and the long road- don't really care how we get there, or who gets us there. I don't really have any disdain for ALPA, nor any deep felt love. Simply, it's just what we've got. However, I will say that I am more concerned with OUR happenings than I am with the National agenda and old school, outdated, method of business. I'm hoping that our dealings with Delta, and Lee Moak, are a foreshadowing of the evolution of ALPA business, and it's evolving game plan for the long term future. I suppose time will tell.

However, there is one thing I feel strongly about. If this T/A is as bad as it is forcast to be, I think that there should be some very clear, and unmistakably poinient actions taken here. After four years of talking about stopping the undercutting within DCI, if this is indeed substantially less than what ASA has, I think they ought to be tossed off the ALPA roll, as should Mesa. I also think that they ought to bask in the glory of their newfound pass privelages. If they want to "go it alone", then I think they should be allowed to do just that.

 

[BrickTop]

ALPA will never have a place at Skywest. "NEVER"

 

[buscap]

ALPA will never have a place at Skywest. "NEVER"

Never say never my friend.

 

[BrickTop]

Never say never my friend.

Perhaps someday a Union but not one soul besides the most disgruntled of our group would choose ALPA for representation.

 

[crjskipper]

from a source inside delta - the lga dci flying will come up for bid. pinnacle, comair and asa will be the three most likely candidates for most of it. he says asa is the only one without dual flying and that will more than likely kill the bid. thank you current alpa leadership.