Wondering

[GooseHZ]

Burn,

im a Cpt at FLOPS, i know lots of your fellow pilots at Nets and i think you guys have a strong company. But i have to ask...do you really think there is a unending amount of money in aviation? WB is a very smart man...he will not lose money forever. Now im not trying to start a war so dont flame me. Alos outspending is not always the smart thing to do....look at the USSR it didnt work for them....I hope for all of us guys/gals that FLOPS,NETS, FLEX all stay strong and grow like mad so we can keep doing what we love to do.....Burn JetA.



Fly safe

Goose

 

[Gulfstream 200]

From reading many posts, these guys do really seem to believe the money goes on forever!! Yeah, I can see WB signing off on a 100% pay raise - YEAH. Oh , but that STRIKE may just pursuade him, right?

My observation...Pilots are a funny group, they seem feircely proud of thier employer and love to bash the competition (even if BOTH thier jobs suck) Pilots never think THEIR employer will be the one to fold, but they do....then they go scattering around wildly to the next job and start the process all over again - and blame greedy, abusive management for the whole mess.

Just remember, we are all in the same business --- and neither you (or your competitor) is ever more than ONE DAY away from a pinkslip!

 

[GIVJoc]

A word on the economy

According to the IMF the world economy led by a strong U.S. rebound, should show solid growth rates this year and next after experiencing the most severe slowdown in a decade, this was said this past Thursday.

They citied rising oil prices and increased Middle East tensions as the main stumbling block.
“The IMF offered an even more optimistic projection for 2003, a 4 percent growth rate. That would be a significant improvement from the 2.5 percent actual output growth in 2001, the weakest performance since the last global slowdown in 1991”.
“The U.S. recovery accounted for much of the upward revision. The American economy had fallen into its first recession in a decade in March 2001 and was further buffeted by the Sept. 11 attacks”.
“The IMF now predicted U.S. growth this year of 2.3 percent, 1.6 percentage point above the December estimate. For 2004, the IMF forecast 3.4 percent growth”.
The forecast was prepared for the annual spring meetings of the IMF and its sister agency, the World Bank, which were to get under way Friday.


Personally I think a lot of the tension is based on the uncertainty of the Middle East, once we go in and win, which we will, the economy will begin to grow again in most all sectors.
Travel is down due to the increased terror threat, plus the airlines were running one step in front of financial disaster before 9/11 anyway.
Things will turn around, growth will begin again and markets will pickup once this looming war is behind us.
Think positive and just stay focused,

GIV

 

[Gulfstream 200]

SO....

basically you are saying even though you knew the pay sucks - you took the job because "the contract" was in negotiation.
I guess you convinced yourself.

HEY, trust me, read my posts - I dont claim to know anything about Execjet, Netjets (whatever) all I know is what I read here. I dont really care about your operation, I would NEVER take a job there - ever- you work too hard and I could not live on your salary.

All is was advising people is to get your salary coming in the door, or forever hold your peace!....this idea that WB will give in to your 100% pay raises or our "STRIKE" is just plain laughable.

HEY, I truly hope you guys get a 200% raise, you deserve it, you work very hard from what I have seen. I think you will find that the industry (pilots) are behind your desires but really dont have much sympathy for you.....you took the job, not me.

Many view your pilot group as holding down industry pay. Who is to blame?? I know.....management.......

Best of luck to you, hope it works out!

 

[Dep676]

Did someone strike a nerve?

It's all fine a dandy to bad mouth Options or Flexjet. Yet when someone calls you guys at NJA on your contract and "big raises" you are supposed to be getting. You guys get all defensive. Like it was said in another post. You would be better off worrying about your own company instead of someone else's.

Look at what the NJI guys are starting at. Ask yourself if we didn't have the IBT with us could we get the same treatment and pay?

 

[NJA Capt]

Originally posted by Gulfstream 200 slacker


I dont claim to know anything about Netjets ...I dont really care about your operation

Then why do you read and post on the fractional side of this board?

Many view your pilot group as holding down industry pay.

Are you in denial? 100,000 pro pilots in the country, 2000 work at NetJets. 2000 of us are pulling the other 198,000 down? If it helps you to rationalize, knock yourself out. Yourself and many other pilots on this venue brag about YOUR wonderful pay so obviously it's not dragging YOU guys down now is it?

You don't think the 50,000 charter pilots flying Citations etc for 15K-25K has an effect, right?

 

[Gulfstream 200]

WHOA...
cant even read all the rambling.

Bottom line ---

YOU agreed to work for sub-standard wages - NOT ME. All the rambling and bullshiit "contract" talk you can yap about cant stop the fact YOU signed on for poverty wages. If all of YOU didn't take these shiit jobs YOU would not be in this bind right now. Take personal responsibility for YOUR problems. It aint managements fault, they get paid just fine.

Live with it, go on strike, tell the owners to pay up for your superior service (?) , call the frakin' president....whatever you think it takes!!.......I hope you strike!!! heck....I hope it works! The rest of the industry is behind you, dont doubt it.

We would all love to see EJA stop bringing down the industry pay.

Again, we are all in the same game -- now bring your end up to par. We will all be better off!!

GOOD LUCK TO YOU!

 

[NJA Capt]

Did someone strike a nerve? ... You guys get all defensive.

Boy! Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.
One person resonding doesn't exactly constitute striking a nerve. What's really funny, is all the non-NJA people that think they will get a raise because we do. That's about as ignorant of an assumption as you can make.

You would be better off worrying about your own company instead of someone else's.

Ironic message don't you think. Maybe you should take your own advise.

 

[NJA Capt]

YOU agreed to work for sub-standard wages - NOT ME.

So why is it you care? I don't recall any of US bringing up any contract. You did. You're right, we signed on here, you didn't. Again, so why is it we are having this discussion?


We seem to be living with it just fine. Why is there a problem? If your grass is greener, why are you spending so much time looking in our pasture? Hmmm?

 

[Hubie]

HOLY COW!!!

I know that I’m a bit isolated from the frac side of the house but man!!! I thought you guys/gals (especially the skippers) were making better than 43 grand flying the X coast-to-coast twice daily for 7 straight.

How much OT is factored into that figure or is it the floor?

What are some of the other salaries NJA skippers make, what happened to those guys your all the time reading about who are pulling down 6 figures, or was that just made up for the purpose of the article, ProPilot Mag I believe or it may have been Flying Mag.

Hubie

 

[Gulfstream 200]

WHY?

because your salarys affect the entire industry, thats why.

I do apologize if I struck a cord about your situation.

AGAIN, I hope you guys succeed. We will all be happy to see the end of pathetically underpaid pilots.

once again...BEST OF LUCK!!!

 

[sky4]

abenaki?

Gulfstream 200 is trying to say he hopes you and all of Netjets well! (Some) of you Netjet guys have you brains so far up WB butts that you can't see the light!! I fly for Options and I can even see he is wishing us all well! Some of you guy's can dish it but not take it. Where would Netjets be without WB? He is one man with one mind, he can change it any time! Now, I wish us all well, and I hope Netjet pilots get everything you want. That will bring to whole industry up. I guess what I am trying to say is think before you talk, remember, you are riding someone eleses coat tail, and if he decides to shed it we will all be up the creek!

I am glad you are proud of you company, just as I am proud of mine!

Fly Safe

Sky

 

[Heavy Set]

Given the shockingly-low salaries at NJA (Citation X captain making $42K), what does a 3-4 year captain at Options make? Is it much higher?

Good luck - those wages are ridiculous!!!!! However, in this market (glut of unemployed pilots), not too surprising...

 

[hawkercpt]

options..

3rd year Hawker captain $65000/yr base.

 

[learjetguy]

How much?

43K a year? If thats true I think I will take a day off just to walk the picket line with you guys. Who were the financial wizards that agreed to that contract?

Learguy

 

[FL450]

"Just remember, we are all in the same business "

Really? Are you lumping all of aviation together? I'm interested in your explanation of this.


"HEY, trust me, read my posts - I dont claim to know anything about Execjet, Netjets (whatever) all I know is what I read here. I dont really care about your operation, I would NEVER take a job there - ever- you work too hard and I could not live on your salary."

I guess that would be reason enough for you to antagonize other pilots, wouldn't it? I'm not sure why you delight in such posts, but I am thankful that you are in the minority.

 

[Dep676]

NJA Capt

I am not worrying about your company or contract. I am saying that you guys need to worry about your own company and noboby else's. I could give two craps what kind of pay you guys get over there. I hope they wise up and get rid of the union. Let's see you got Captains in the X making 46k. That's good keep up the good work IBT.

All small cabin FO's start at 34k here at Options. Captains in the small cabin start at 52k. Notice that is the small cabin aircraft too. Not saying any of that is great money either. It would appear that it is more than the IBT got you guys.

So don't give some bullsh!t response and pull selective words from my post. Try and make it look like I care about your company or contract. I was just calling you self professed "sky gods" out at NJA. Everytime someone posts about a fractional. You guys chime in with your two cents about what you heard or think you know. So again I say don't worry about my company. Worry about your own and your "bullsh!t contract".

Oh yeah well we are at it I heard Uncle Warren sold FSI. So now more good deals over ther for you guy at NJA. Isn't that how guys work on rumors about other business. SO AGAIN I SAY WORRY ABOUT YOUR OWN COMPANY INSTEAD OF OTHERS. Is that clear enough for you.

Hey what happened to abenaki? He must of realized the trash he was talking wasn't getting anywhere and deleted all his posts. His posts are all gone.

 

[abenaki]

No, I'm around.....It is very simple......To attempt to converse with those on this board (yourself included) who are so full of bitterness and rancor is a waste of my time and energy. I have no desire to participate in "discussions" that are primarily driven by condescending atittudes, patronizing styles, insults, lack of courtesy and mutual respect, the unwillingness to READ what another has said all the while being accused of things that I DID NOT DO....and that includes jumping in/on FLOPS or FLEXJETS pilots, their company, their management or anything else that YOU accuse me of that I DID NOT PARTICIPATE IN. You haven't got a CLUE as to what you are falsely accusing me of.

You too, like Gulfstream200, are simply people I choose not to deal with simply because your styles are reflective of a character type that are ones where constructive, useful dialogue are not achievable.

 

[Dep676]

Appreciate your concern... But I have confidence in the IBT.... My brother drives a truck that weighs less than my aircraft in Westchester as a Teamster and makes 100K per year....

It was not done all in their first contract.

We will be better off in the long run.

Now that Ricci is gone, I know you'll still get your raise to match and beat NJA's IBT new CBA wages when it is settled. Cause you got that promise IN WRITING -- right?

Wow that really shows how much the IBT cares about you guys. You got guys driving truck making that kind of money. Just think of how much school that had to go through to drive that truck. Maybe if you guys drove trucks instead of flying airplanes you might be able to make that much too.

I never said anything about getting a raise. I don't believe anythng anybody says until it actually happens. Until they are just blowing hot air. Kind of like the IBT does to you guys.

 

[Dep676]

Yeah and we run into people from your company that asks about Ricci. Then when we ask about your "contract" you just turn around and walk away.

How many years has the IBT been helping you? Maybe they will get it right someday before you retire.

 

[sweptwingz]

Guys (and gals) Please... ease up!

The fractional and corporate "chest
bumping" here reminds me of two children saying: "Did NOT, did TOO!"

Can't we keep the faith and get along
here? Unemployed pilots (and under-
employed pilots) are bad for the
industry, bad for ALL of us. More pilots on the street means lower salaries, and fewer jobs. How can that possibly
benefit ANYONE?

Pilots have GOT to stick together...we're ALL we've got ! Management hates our guts, passengers think we're over paid prima-donnas, and TSA thinks we're ALL terrorists! Let's try HELPING our fellow airplane drivers out rather than
slamming them!

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, today's "dream job" can turn into a furlough line faster than you can spit.

And one more thing...that pilot you
downchecked, furloughed, or bumped
off of your jump-seat beacuse he wasn't on some "list" may very well be
on your interview board next year. I've seen it happen. This is a VERY
small community...think about it.

Be part of the solution, not part of
the problem.

 

[swberry]

Boy! Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.
One person resonding doesn't exactly constitute striking a nerve. What's really funny, is all the non-NJA people that think they will get a raise because we do. That's about as ignorant of an assumption as you can make.



Ironic message don't you think. Maybe you should take your own advise.

Excellent points NJA Capt. I can't imagine being that mad over what someone else makes for a living. Relax, or your head might explode.

 

[swberry]

Then why do you read and post on the fractional side of this board?




Are you in denial? 100,000 pro pilots in the country, 2000 work at NetJets. 2000 of us are pulling the other 198,000 down? If it helps you to rationalize, knock yourself out. Yourself and many other pilots on this venue brag about YOUR wonderful pay so obviously it's not dragging YOU guys down now is it?

You don't think the 50,000 charter pilots flying Citations etc for 15K-25K has an effect, right?

Well, I screwed that up. This is the quote I meant to comment on.

 

[Dep676]

The point is my TEAMSTER truck driving brother makes more than any of your pilots...
Why? Because your pay is based on our pay....

That is not true about your brother making more than any of our pilots. First year GIV pay is 100,000.00 a year. These two comments by you so your ignorance. If our pay was based on yours we would be getting paid a lot less than we are. That fact is our pay is better than yours. Maybe someday that might not be that case. It is in fact the case now. So hold your breath for your IBT and maybe you won't pass out before they actually get you your raises.

 

[Toploader]

Dep, you need to go back and re-read all of your posts on this thread. I'm sure you are a nice guy, but your posts just do not reflect that.

If this keeps up, I might put you in the "ignore" file with Turbinehead!

Toploader

P.S. I just might put this entire thread on the "Ignore" list