Will SWA keep the 717s?

[Muppets]

I figured this would be the one to come up.....Not even close to the same situation and prior to laws protecting the very scenario you guys beg for. Keep fishin.......

 

[SWA/CA]

Not even close to the same situation and prior to laws protecting the very scenario you guys beg for. Keep fishin.......

Then why is fragmentation language in their CBA? If there are LAWS to prevent this, then why is this language included in every contract. Its in SWAPA's contract.

The Pam Am guys went with the planes/routes to Delta, right.

What do you mean, not even close? Southwest could dump the 717..... would the Crews go with the planes?

 

[Bob Dylan]

I get the sense that several SWA guys (and Bob Dylan) are gleefully cracking their knuckles and salivating over the thought of furloughs at Guadeloupe and the potential dumping of the bastard fleet type.

You got me all wrong then tankernerd. I don't wish that on anybody, and I hope no trannie pilots lose their jobs.

I do believe that they cannot just expect to get bought out by another, better company, with a better contract, raises, benefits increases, etc and still expect to keep their seniority.

The fairest thing would be a staple with a no furlough clause whereby they start out at the bottom of the SWA list like all their SWAPA brothers and sisters.

If the greedy tranny captains try to hold out for more, then I believe that they could all end up with nothing.

If I were them, I would take a staple, just like Lear70 and the other trannies were begging for before the buyout happened.

 

[Captain Jeff]

It is kinda easy to see what will happen to the 717. There are 90 of them. When they were brand new rolling off the assmebly line they cost something like 17 million dollars. They are almost all leases. They are currently operating just fine and the troubled engines are power by the hour.

While no one (except airtran) ever wanted the 717. When the leases come up (I think they were 15 year leases) I bet some one calls the guy who owns them and says come and get them, or do you want to discount them? I think they will be around till there is a cheaper option to pursue and dumping 90 planes that operate at high load factors just to retain bragging rights as "an all 737" airline is just not gonna happen.

 

[Ty Webb]

Then why is fragmentation language in their CBA? If there are LAWS to prevent this, then why is this language included in every contract. Its in SWAPA's contract.

The Pam Am guys went with the planes/routes to Delta, right.

What do you mean, not even close? Southwest could dump the 717..... would the Crews go with the planes?

Some of you guys are in such denial over this deal that you're becoming delusional.

If you don't even have a copy of our contract, then you're not informed enough to discuss the matter.

 

[SWA/FO]

If you don't even have a copy of our contract, then you're not informed enough to discuss the matter.

You got a copy of ours? I bet you do. You probably look like this when you read SWAPA's contract and like this or this :cartman: when you read yours.

 

[Ty Webb]

You got a copy of ours? I bet you do. You probably look like this when you read SWAPA's contract and like this or this :cartman: when you read yours.

I'm sure that's what you think.

The pay rates are better, you stay in better hotels, and the health insurance premiums are lower, but it ain't a 1980's legacy contract, that's for sure. . .

In 1986, a narrowbody Capt at UAL made 12,000 a month. That would be $24,000. a month today. . . . And was probably flying a few legs a day and then taking a limo to a downtown hotel for a long layover.

 

[johnsonrod]

No way SWA keeps the 717 long term. The 717 overhead panel is too advanced for most SWA pilots who prefer a dated 737 overhead panel.

 

[SWA/FO]

The pay rates are better, you stay in better hotels, and the health insurance premium are lower, but it ain't a 1960's legacy contact, that's for sure.

Thats it? Thats all you see in it?
Looks like we just took care the skywest problem for you. This aint the 1960s.... (Tranny Tranny WIN/WIN.:crying.

 

[SWA/FO]

No way SWA keeps the 717 long term. The 717 overhead panel is too advanced for most SWA pilots who prefer a dated 737 overhead panel.

this is true.

 

[Ty Webb]

Looks like we just took care the skywest problem for you. This aint the 1960s..... (Tranny Tranny WIN/WIN.:crying.

Looks like we'll be taking care of the Volaris problem for you.

You can tell me the rest of your cute little slogans . . . . after you finish reading the checklists. :laugh:

 

[SWA/FO]

If you get your medical back. Maybe I'll let you fly everyother leg, which if I do... I will be reading the checklist.

 

[Empennage]

I'm sure that's what you think.

The pay rates are better, you stay in better hotels, and the health insurance premiums are lower, but it ain't a 1980's legacy contract, that's for sure. . .

In 1986, a narrowbody Capt at UAL made 12,000 a month. That would be $24,000. a month today. . . . And was probably flying a few legs a day and then taking a limo to a downtown hotel for a long layover.

1- please help us understand the point you are attempting to make.

2- what is the reason this has changed?

3- in swas 40 year history, how many times has it not had a profitable year?

4- how many profitable years has united had?

 

[Secret Squirrel]

Speaking of the Skywest problem, a gate agent at a Skywest outstation said they will continue until at least next year and there is no set time frame for them to stop. So was this SWAPA victory an agreement not to renew their contract in three years or is there a time frame set up to stop service?

 

[Empennage]

Looks like we'll be taking care of the Volaris problem for you.

You can tell me the rest of your cute little slogans . . . . after you finish reading the checklists. :laugh:

Ty,

Respectfully I've tried to keep the discussions here positive.

You are however quickly becoming that 1% we are always talking about on flight info. Yes you have that right, but is that your goal? If so, again, your choice and I understand. It's just not real constructive.

 

[waveflyer]

I'm sure that's what you think.

The pay rates are better, you stay in better hotels, and the health insurance premiums are lower, but it ain't a 1980's legacy contract, that's for sure. . .

In 1986, a narrowbody Capt at UAL made 12,000 a month. That would be $24,000. a month today. . . . And was probably flying a few legs a day and then taking a limo to a downtown hotel for a long layover.

Yeah Ty, what is your point? That's a bullsh/t line man. In 1970, a delta 74 Capt made $100/hr- adjusted for inflation that is north of $600/hr now. No airline has kept up with inflation since deregulation - hell, no profession period has kept up with inflation since the 80's. Ie- corporate interests are largely winning that battle.

But if your argument is that Wn has been undercutting the industry, then just what has AT been doing???

Please don't EVER convince yourself or anyone else that your career didn't just get A LOT better. Comments like this make me want to get on the straight staple, no protections side. Bc if you guys aren't rational, then why the heck would we?

 

[Fubijaakr]

How long have you been in the airline business? When was the last time an airline got rid of an aircraft type and just fired all of the crews of that aircraft? Package deal? WTF

A recent example would be RAH/Midwest. They just furloughed the pilots until they were gone.

They won't be giving up any profitable flying??? For every 717 retired a 737 will come on line and be flown by Southwest pilots.

Exactly. Each 737 AAI has on order comes off the line gets assigned to SWA. The corresponding 717 gets sent to the desert and the AAI guys get furloughed.

The leases??? You can renegotiate for better terms and other planes. Everything is negotiable.... Right??

True. They said the same thing about the MDs at AS. The leases were too expensive to break. That didn't stop management from sending them back early, though.

Regarding the 1000 717 pilots and the other 800 737 guys at Airtran that is completely up to you guys. Do you want to work here or not?? I'd probably negotiate in good faith with SWAPA and get it done sooner than later. You write your own ticket!

Or bid the 737 at AAI ASAP.

Mark my words, if SWA starts returning 717s, 717 pilots will get furloughed. Furloughed pilots do not bring jobs to SLI negotiations. At that point the best any furloughed AAI pilot can hope for is the staple.

As the Dude says, get that SLI done sooner rather than later.

 

[scoreboardII]

Originally Posted by Muppets
How long have you been in the airline business? When was the last time an airline got rid of an aircraft type and just fired all of the crews of that aircraft? Package deal? WTF

Don't read much do you, RAH is slated to shutdown their wholey owned Q400 Lynx operation.

AA the 727 when they closed out TWA.

 

[Quimby]

I'm sure that's what you think.

The pay rates are better, you stay in better hotels, and the health insurance premiums are lower, but it ain't a 1980's legacy contract, that's for sure. . .

In 1986, a narrowbody Capt at UAL made 12,000 a month. That would be $24,000. a month today. . . . And was probably flying a few legs a day and then taking a limo to a downtown hotel for a long layover.

There's plenty of captains at SWA making over 24k/month now.

Or so I've heard.

Would you like to discuss the price of milk in 1955?

 

[Luv2BFlyin]

Speaking of the Skywest problem, a gate agent at a Skywest outstation said they will continue until at least next year and there is no set time frame for them to stop. So was this SWAPA victory an agreement not to renew their contract in three years or is there a time frame set up to stop service?

Good question, again. It's been asked at least twice before and still no answer from the all-knowing WN pilots that post here.

 

[ASADFW7]

Skywest can still operate those flights, they are set to end the flight agreement.

 

[Empennage]

Speaking of the Skywest problem, a gate agent at a Skywest outstation said they will continue until at least next year and there is no set time frame for them to stop. So was this SWAPA victory an agreement not to renew their contract in three years or is there a time frame set up to stop service?

Does skywest currently feed Swa flying?

 

[ASADFW7]

No Airtran out of MKE, inherited by SWA

 

[Luv2BFlyin]

Does skywest currently feed Swa flying?

Does it matter according to the SWAPA contract? If it doesn't Skywest could fly until there is a SOC.

 

[ASADFW7]

It does matter according the SWAPA contract, that is why it was grieved and has been stated that it will be terminated.

 

[V1 ROT8]

Ty:

All your trash talk is going to get you is unemployment benefits and a preferential interview. On behalf of 6,000+ Southwest pilots, keep it up.

V1

 

[ASADFW7]

No one person speaks for either pilot group on flightinfo.

 

[Ty Webb]

Ty:

All your trash talk is going to get you is unemployment benefits and a preferential interview. On behalf of 6,000+ Southwest pilots, keep it up.

V1

Sure, the trash talk from your side is OK. We should just shut up. Right? Make sure you tell that to the next ten crew you see. Hopefully, one will be me.

 

[ASADFW7]

Ty, I do not advocate anyone taking the brunt of emotion and angst in all of this. Except OYS or General Lee, they enjoy the attention.

 

[Ty Webb]

Ty, I do not advocate anyone taking the brunt of emotion and angst in all of this. Except OYS or General Lee, they enjoy the attention.

Oh, I agree . . . . You'll notice that these threads don't get started by AAI pilots, they are almost all started by SWA FO's.

Then, when we respond, we're the bad guys . . . the bad attitudes . . . . the "culture killers" . . . . blah, blah, blah.

The difference between SWA pilots and AirTran pilots is . . . . . . ready for this? NOTHING. Zip. Zilch, nada.

The Emperor has no clothes.