Will SWA keep the 717s?

[Ty Webb]

Exactly what I said. SWA bought AAI for Atlanta and their 737 order book. They'll drop the 717 like a live grenade. And until the SLI is done, AAI pilots can be furloughed from Guadalupe as the airframes depart.

A de facto staple job, if you will.

Yeah, they'd rather give up all that
profitable flying, return the planes, keep paying 150m a year in lease payments, retrain nearly a thousand pilots..... and the remainining 800 would still have to be integrated, including yours truly.

Yeah, sounds like a heck of a plan. Got any other good ones?

 

[SWA/CA]

I’ll explain my earlier post: personally, I am not convinced that the 717 are here to stay at SWA. Rumor has it, that it might be hard to keep these things going with parts and such. Who wants to fly an airplane not in production anymore, this could cost SWA lots of money. Southwest doesn’t like to spend money. :bawling:

I’m not an expert on the current Air Tran contract so I’m not up on their fragmentation language. What kind of protections does it have in it? Lear/Ty do you know? What does it say? If SWA decides to get rid of the 717s, what would happen to the Crews? Do they go with the planes in a package deal? Would M/B laws apply to SWA then?

 

[SWA/CA]

double post....... oops

 

[400ADude]

Yeah, they'd rather give up all that
profitable flying, return the planes, keep paying 150m a year in lease payments, retrain nearly a thousand pilots..... and the remainining 800 would still have to be integrated, including yours truly.

Yeah, sounds like a heck of a plan. Got any other good ones?

They won't be giving up any profitable flying???:laugh: For every 717 retired a 737 will come on line and be flown by Southwest pilots.:beer: The leases??? You can renegotiate for better terms and other planes. Everything is negotiable.... Right??:beer:

Regarding the 1000 717 pilots and the other 800 737 guys at Airtran that is completely up to you guys. Do you want to work here or not?? I'd probably negotiate in good faith with SWAPA and get it done sooner than later. You write your own ticket!

:bawling::bawling:= Ty Webb in a year

 

[SWA/CA]

retrain nearly a thousand pilots.....

would they stay with the airplanes? What does your contract say?

 

[tankerhead]

I get the sense that several SWA guys (and Bob Dylan) are gleefully cracking their knuckles and salivating over the thought of furloughs at Guadeloupe and the potential dumping of the bastard fleet type. If it happens for business reasons, so be it, you go GK. But you guys should feel a little dirty inside for anticipating the dismantling of a worthy competitor and the thousands who would hit the street while you pat yourselves on the back. I hope if I ever get to fly with you pricks you can play nice while we move the sheep from Flint to Lubbock. Just don't take a crap in my lunchbox, please.

luv ya mean it.

 

[Ty Webb]

They won't be giving up any profitable flying???:laugh: For every 717 retired a 737 will come on line and be flown by Southwest pilots.:beer:

What are you, an absolute moron? Gonna crap 737's out of your the place you've been keeping your head warm?

The leases??? You can renegotiate for better terms and other planes. Everything is negotiable.... Right??:beer:

You don't seem to know much about leases (or much of anything else) and it's not my job to educate you.

Regarding the 1000 717 pilots and the other 800 737 guys at Airtran that is completely up to you guys. Do you want to work here or not?? I'd probably negotiate in good faith with SWAPA and get it done sooner than later. You write your own ticket!

We are negotiating in good faith, and we're willing to live with what is agreed upon or arbitrated . . . . The question is will YOU? You're the one who seems to have issues sharing their toys.

:bawling::bawling:= Ty Webb in a year

Lots of luck with that one, buddy, but you're living in la-la land, and it's going to be a rude awakening for you.

 

[Ty Webb]

would they stay with the airplanes? What does your contract say?

This stuff has all been covered before. Search for it, if you have that much time to squander. Can't really see the sense in re-hashing it, it's just Bob Dylan/400aholes' version of fantasy football.

 

[Muppets]

I’ll explain my earlier post: personally, I am not convinced that the 717 are here to stay at SWA. Rumor has it, that it might be hard to keep these things going with parts and such. Who wants to fly an airplane not in production anymore, this could cost SWA lots of money. Southwest doesn’t like to spend money. :bawling:

I’m not an expert on the current Air Tran contract so I’m not up on their fragmentation language. What kind of protections does it have in it? Lear/Ty do you know? What does it say? If SWA decides to get rid of the 717s, what would happen to the Crews? Do they go with the planes in a package deal? Would M/B laws apply to SWA then?

How long have you been in the airline business? When was the last time an airline got rid of an aircraft type and just fired all of the crews of that aircraft? Package deal? WTF

 

[SWA/FO]

PAN AM/DELTA comes to mind.

 

[Muppets]

I figured this would be the one to come up.....Not even close to the same situation and prior to laws protecting the very scenario you guys beg for. Keep fishin.......

 

[SWA/CA]

Not even close to the same situation and prior to laws protecting the very scenario you guys beg for. Keep fishin.......

Then why is fragmentation language in their CBA? If there are LAWS to prevent this, then why is this language included in every contract. Its in SWAPA's contract.

The Pam Am guys went with the planes/routes to Delta, right.

What do you mean, not even close? Southwest could dump the 717..... would the Crews go with the planes?

 

[Bob Dylan]

I get the sense that several SWA guys (and Bob Dylan) are gleefully cracking their knuckles and salivating over the thought of furloughs at Guadeloupe and the potential dumping of the bastard fleet type.

You got me all wrong then tankernerd. I don't wish that on anybody, and I hope no trannie pilots lose their jobs.

I do believe that they cannot just expect to get bought out by another, better company, with a better contract, raises, benefits increases, etc and still expect to keep their seniority.

The fairest thing would be a staple with a no furlough clause whereby they start out at the bottom of the SWA list like all their SWAPA brothers and sisters.

If the greedy tranny captains try to hold out for more, then I believe that they could all end up with nothing.

If I were them, I would take a staple, just like Lear70 and the other trannies were begging for before the buyout happened.

 

[Captain Jeff]

It is kinda easy to see what will happen to the 717. There are 90 of them. When they were brand new rolling off the assmebly line they cost something like 17 million dollars. They are almost all leases. They are currently operating just fine and the troubled engines are power by the hour.

While no one (except airtran) ever wanted the 717. When the leases come up (I think they were 15 year leases) I bet some one calls the guy who owns them and says come and get them, or do you want to discount them? I think they will be around till there is a cheaper option to pursue and dumping 90 planes that operate at high load factors just to retain bragging rights as "an all 737" airline is just not gonna happen.

 

[Ty Webb]

Then why is fragmentation language in their CBA? If there are LAWS to prevent this, then why is this language included in every contract. Its in SWAPA's contract.

The Pam Am guys went with the planes/routes to Delta, right.

What do you mean, not even close? Southwest could dump the 717..... would the Crews go with the planes?

Some of you guys are in such denial over this deal that you're becoming delusional.

If you don't even have a copy of our contract, then you're not informed enough to discuss the matter.

 

[SWA/FO]

If you don't even have a copy of our contract, then you're not informed enough to discuss the matter.

You got a copy of ours? I bet you do. You probably look like this when you read SWAPA's contract and like this or this :cartman: when you read yours.

 

[Ty Webb]

You got a copy of ours? I bet you do. You probably look like this when you read SWAPA's contract and like this or this :cartman: when you read yours.

I'm sure that's what you think.

The pay rates are better, you stay in better hotels, and the health insurance premiums are lower, but it ain't a 1980's legacy contract, that's for sure. . .

In 1986, a narrowbody Capt at UAL made 12,000 a month. That would be $24,000. a month today. . . . And was probably flying a few legs a day and then taking a limo to a downtown hotel for a long layover.

 

[johnsonrod]

No way SWA keeps the 717 long term. The 717 overhead panel is too advanced for most SWA pilots who prefer a dated 737 overhead panel.

 

[SWA/FO]

The pay rates are better, you stay in better hotels, and the health insurance premium are lower, but it ain't a 1960's legacy contact, that's for sure.

Thats it? Thats all you see in it?
Looks like we just took care the skywest problem for you. This aint the 1960s.... (Tranny Tranny WIN/WIN.:crying.

 

[SWA/FO]

No way SWA keeps the 717 long term. The 717 overhead panel is too advanced for most SWA pilots who prefer a dated 737 overhead panel.

this is true.