Will SWA and AT truly merge?

[Ty Webb]

You are really a weird dude......

Probably not . . . . You've been wrong about everything else; at least you're consistent. :laugh:

 

[labatt]

You are really a weird dude......

You have engaged with this more than most, if not all, others on this topic.

Just wait until you meet him!

 

[General Lee]

Hey JonJuan,

What part of windfall do you not get? Kinda like the Airtran guys that were high fiving each other in the LGA terminal the morning of the acquisition announcement.

Roman,

I picked Mesa and Airtran because the pay differences and pilot longevity are similar to the AAI/SW deal. Pretty much apples to apples. But no one would touch it..funny.

General,

I appreciate your fairly rational post, I say that honestly. I do agree that it could be a great airline but I have a couple of questions for you. Beyond a 5 percent pay bump for the DL pilots, how much stock did the DL side get? Was it based on seniority or split evenly? I haven't heard many people discuss that angle and thought you might know.

Your right about Gary running the COMPANY merger. So far it hasn't gotten too involved lately with the SLI. Your a little off base as far as how SWAPA will be involved. SWAPA has the full power to negotiate the transition agreement, so they do hold the reins on that. There will be no JCBA like the DL merger. As a matter of fact, this acquisition is nothing like the DL/NW merger and for people to say differently are really lacking in the facts.

RF

Red,

Fair and rational post? You bet, I AM A CHANGED MAN MY BROTHER!! Anyway, as far as the stock goes, it depended on your longevity, and I think the "average" amount was 3600 shares per pilot. Captains got a little more, junior FOs got a little less. I think the stock price back then was around $6 dollars, and it has fluctuated and is now at around $13-14. Thank Gawd I didn't sell any, but I know many who sold it all at around $6 thinking it could never go up. It may go up to $20 or more eventually after all of the mergers finish.

And, you're right, I don't exactly know how SWAPA is going to handle this with AT, but it would be foolish to have a B-scale, so we know that won't happen. It would be wise for them to get the highest rates possible for the 717 and 737, and since they are close in size (717 to 735), it shouldn't be far off.

As far as the SLI goes, SWAPA won't have much to do at all. That will very likely go to arbitration, and then the lawyers will have to fight it out. Roman was right when he said you comparing Mesa to AT vs SWA was like comparing apples to oranges. The arbitrators will take a look at both companies, and see how they compare. SWA has been around longer, so that will have an impact on the SLI, no doubt. Maybe the top 1/4th will all be SWA pilots. (?) But, from there the airlines look a lot a like, they are both profitable, they have about the same type of planes, and both bring a lot to the table. You can't keep minimizing what AT does for a "new" SWA. Sure, SWA is a profit monster, but AT brings even more SWA's way with more slots in very restrictive airports (LGA and new flights to DCA), and it opens up ATL, which is huge. That will all lead to a healthier company for you. But, if you are in the bottom 3/4s at SWA, you most likely will be affected with the SLI, in some way or the other. That is the way it goes. Have a good one.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[ivauir]

It would be wise for them to get the highest rates possible for the 717 and 737, and since they are close in size (717 to 735), it shouldn't be far off.

Not exactly. For an apples to apples comparison you need to look at the complete fleets. We have hardly any 500's (we'll have way more 800s, with 175 seats, in the near future), and AirTran operates a fleet dominated by the 717. For a more apt comparison look at 117 seats vs 137.

Think of it this way: SWA operates a handful of 122 seat aircraft at a rate established for a 137 seat aircraft. AAI operates a handful of 137 seat aircraft at a rate established for a 117 seat aircraft.

I hope we do get a single rate across the fleet as it promotes efficiency, and reduces training events. Hopefully the markets opened by a smaller aircraft will offset the reduction in ASM's/aircraft and the ensuing reduction in revenue potential.

 

[islandhoper]

Red,

Fair and rational post? You bet, I AM A CHANGED MAN MY BROTHER!! Anyway, as far as the stock goes, it depended on your longevity, and I think the "average" amount was 3600 shares per pilot. Captains got a little more, junior FOs got a little less. I think the stock price back then was around $6 dollars, and it has fluctuated and is now at around $13-14. Thank Gawd I didn't sell any, but I know many who sold it all at around $6 thinking it could never go up. It may go up to $20 or more eventually after all of the mergers finish.

And, you're right, I don't exactly know how SWAPA is going to handle this with AT, but it would be foolish to have a B-scale, so we know that won't happen. It would be wise for them to get the highest rates possible for the 717 and 737, and since they are close in size (717 to 735), it shouldn't be far off.

As far as the SLI goes, SWAPA won't have much to do at all. That will very likely go to arbitration, and then the lawyers will have to fight it out. Roman was right when he said you comparing Mesa to AT vs SWA was like comparing apples to oranges. The arbitrators will take a look at both companies, and see how they compare. SWA has been around longer, so that will have an impact on the SLI, no doubt. Maybe the top 1/4th will all be SWA pilots. (?) But, from there the airlines look a lot a like, they are both profitable, they have about the same type of planes, and both bring a lot to the table. You can't keep minimizing what AT does for a "new" SWA. Sure, SWA is a profit monster, but AT brings even more SWA's way with more slots in very restrictive airports (LGA and new flights to DCA), and it opens up ATL, which is huge. That will all lead to a healthier company for you. But, if you are in the bottom 3/4s at SWA, you most likely will be affected with the SLI, in some way or the other. That is the way it goes. Have a good one.


Bye Bye--General Lee

Amen.....

 

[OldManPilot]

this is what i find most amazing about the whole process..

Prior to september, we had more than a few aai pilots begging for a southwest purchase and staple. (and i understand that after the aai management beat down)

now? They want it all. 80 percent pay increase with realitive seniority and the major increase in qol that the southwest contract brings. Not to mention company stability.

Kinda leaves one dumbfounded.

Again, what's in the deal for the southwest pilots? Bueller?

growth, growth, growth!!!!

 

[OldManPilot]

A couple of things, that may or may not be interesting to you all. You can put this in the rumor file but still. Two B717 simulators are headed to DAL in January. Soon after the acquisition is complete, DEN will open as a crew base including B717 and B737 crews. Since this is not an existing crew base either group staffs it will be interesting who gets to staff these airplanes. Each B737 parked at a SWA domicile that was an AT aircraft will eventually be an originator out of an existing crew base.

No Flame only rumors. Cheers, sort out who will fly out of DEN and how you think a fence woulda shouds coulda who cares, fences will be irrelevant there is a good chance things need to get sorted out sooner than later for pilots who do not have as many airplanes in ATL to crew to sort out where they will go.

Figure that out will ya and let me know what you decide? I have no idea.

Where are they getting the B717 sims?? The two we use are owned by Alteon not AirTran. I think I will have to call BS on this rumor. AirTran could not go without them for the time required to move them and get them re-certified.

 

[Ty Webb]

Just wait until you meet him!

Wanna go campin'?

:laugh:

 

[Lear70]

Run,,, I hear Banjo Music!

 

[ATLplt]

.

The improvement in pay for Airtran pilots will not be at the expense of a single SWA pilot. A loss of seniority will most certainly be at the expense of the Airtran pilots.

I wonder which option an arbitrator will consider to be "fair and equitable"

Well said. We'll all find out soon enough.

 

[Full of LUV]

Ty,


Whats the worst that can happen to me? Relative seniority.(won't happen) What am I losing?

What is the worst that can happen to you? Staple. (won't happen) What are you likely to lose? Somewhere in the middle.

The middle is where I gain and you lose SENIORITY.

Your welcome for the huge quality of life increase I have spent a good amount of time earning for you. And I thank you for the increase seniority you will be giving to all my SWA brothers and sisters. That is what a win/win situation is all about.

Together we are going to kick some serious booty in this crappy airline business. And we both gain because of our efforts.

So why am I worried......?

Looks like Dash had it right all along..... who would have thunk?

 

[canyonblue]

Looks like Dash had it right all along..... who would have thunk?

And as usual the Delto Dork had it wrong. uke:

As far as the SLI goes, SWAPA won't have much to do at all. That will very likely go to arbitration, and then the lawyers will have to fight it out.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Max Powers]

My vote to extend seperate ops could be bought - for a price.

Gup

Of course it could, because all you care about is yourself.

 

[Max Powers]

Maybe that's the reason we are hearing about over 800 newhires for 2011. Interesting times for sure..

oh how easy it is to fool the weak minded.

 

[Lear70]

Of course it could, because all you care about is yourself.

Hey!

Shhhhhhhh... Let them think that's not what we want.

Personally, I'd be happy with AirTran being the indefinite International Arm of Southwest Airlines. On 1/1/15 we snap to their CBA in total, including pay rates, duty rigs, the whole shebang.

So sure, leave me #2 in my seat (as of January), pay me SWA pay, and I keep my 2 legs a day to an Int'l station, layover 20-24 hours, fly 2 legs back, go home, 18 days off a month at guarantee with weekends and holidays off.

What was that about extending separate ops indefinitely now?

(P.S. The above is tongue-in-cheek; I know it won't happen, but it sure would be nice).

 

[Crash Pad]

I think that was the deal you raged against:
-Pay April 1
-Seniority in the ATL base
-Fenced ops for 10 years

Tongue-in-cheek

 

[Ty Webb]

AIP 1 had weak language you could drive a truck through, and AirTran Captains would have been reduced to an itinerant band of roving, migrant street captains. Unable to hold a base, constantly pushed lower by every RSW upgrade, it would have been a new circle of hell in Dante's Inferno.

To keep rehashing AIP1 is pointless (but, apparently, it makes some people feel better).

 

[madjack]

Max,

Sorry your cheese got moved...

Ty,

Our FOs are now the roving band of pilots constantly being displaced by AAI transition pilots, who BTW are pretty happy!

I know you guys did not want this, but at least in AIP1 your pay would have flexed up to ease the transition pain...

 

[27 driver]

Max,

Sorry your cheese got moved...

Ty,

Our FOs are now the roving band of pilots constantly being displaced by AAI transition pilots, who BTW are pretty happy!

I know you guys did not want this, but at least in AIP1 your pay would have flexed up to ease the transition pain...

Your FO's being displace is a direct result of our captains are being downgraded. SWAPA wanted our captains seats. They got them. Any SWA FO that didn't get one of those coveted seats is getting displaced. Law of unintended consequences.

 

[texman]

Hey!

Shhhhhhhh... Let them think that's not what we want.

Personally, I'd be happy with AirTran being the indefinite International Arm of Southwest Airlines. On 1/1/15 we snap to their CBA in total, including pay rates, duty rigs, the whole shebang.

So sure, leave me #2 in my seat (as of January), pay me SWA pay, and I keep my 2 legs a day to an Int'l station, layover 20-24 hours, fly 2 legs back, go home, 18 days off a month at guarantee with weekends and holidays off.

What was that about extending separate ops indefinitely now?

(P.S. The above is tongue-in-cheek; I know it won't happen, but it sure would be nice).

I don't think the SWA pilot group will alow U to be just the international arm, and we be your domestic feed