Will SWA and AT truly merge?

[oriondriver]

Da trannies keep saying what they bring to the table is 35 gates in ATL. this is true and it is probably the main reason for the acquisition, but once GH owns AAI what is to stop GH management from transferring 5-10 ATL gates to WN and all the future aircraft orders (for a nominal fee of course). Just asking because earlier in the thread I was called a straight from the Military no-nothing. of course that Military experience got me a job at both WN and FDX allowing me to bypass the second rate airlines.

Time to don my Nomex flight suit and wait for the flame.

 

[GhettoBeechjet]

Of course the whole SLI may be moot because SWA will certainly fail when the "hedges run out".

 

[Sy-bill]

Yes, I too find it odd that a guy that claims he has no vested interest has such a deep knowledge of Southwest's culture and history and such a partisan view point.

And I find it odd that one must only be a pilot and/or employee of SWA to understand something actually being taught in Masters programs at many universities across our great land.

1) The NMB LOVES precedent. They love it because it doesn't make it look like they're inventing anything. This goes double (or triple) if it was recent.

2) The last few pilot arbitrations has gone straight relative seniority. Strip the handwaving/justification away from the recent DAL/NWA merger, and that's what you got, down to a decimal point. Pay didn't matter, contracts didn't matter, merger or acquisition didn't matter, relative size didn't matter. AAA/AWA was essentially the same, with the exception of a cutout for the larger 330 aircraft. AAI/SWA has no such differential.

This is an acquisition without third party financing. This is completely different. In fact, with regards to M/B, unprecedented.

Relying upon what SWA management has considered important in the past, such as corprate culture, is also suspect

Really. Let me let the SWA guys chime in on this one. Is corporate culture no longer considered important at SWA?

Depending on some sleigh of hand corporate handwaving on SWAs part to avoid combining the pilot groups may help you sleep at night, but I would place odds against it.

Contrary to some isolated beliefs on the forum, nothing in this matter will effect my life. But being an objective observer, my money right now is with the SWA pilots experiencing gains in seniority when it is all said and done.

Your life is about to change dramatically! You're going to LUV it here!

And this feeling from an employee promoting their company is worth more than 300mil.

Airtran employees have a life changing opportunity in front of them. Seniority is the only concern the SWA pilots have. If you don't play ball, you otherwise you may be on the outside looking in. No matter what list you end up on.

 

[Kharma Police]

Da trannies keep saying what they bring to the table is 35 gates in ATL. this is true and it is probably the main reason for the acquisition, but once GH owns AAI what is to stop GH management from transferring 5-10 ATL gates to WN and all the future aircraft orders (for a nominal fee of course). Just asking because earlier in the thread I was called a straight from the Military no-nothing. of course that Military experience got me a job at both WN and FDX allowing me to bypass the second rate airlines.

Time to don my Nomex flight suit and wait for the flame.

Seriously, twenty pages on the subject and you ask these questions?

 

[rajflyboy]

Here is the Flight Info solution to fair and equitable. The Airtran pilots will get everything RAJ said except they will be awarded the top 7700 spots on the combined list. Since there are only 1700 AAI pilots the ALPA MEC will set up a new process to hire the remaining 6000 pilots. All SWA pilots will be have "preferential interviews" and may or may not be placed on the list. After the 7700 selected by the AAI ALPA MEC all remaining SWA pilots will furloughed and placed on a "possible recall list". This list will be used only if the AAI ALPA MEC runs out of people they want to hire.

I like this type of thinking!

Man those Air Tran people got the lucky ticket in Aviation >> A jumpset all the way to Oakland, CA

 

[NuGuy]

Heyas,

What most fail to understand here is that the SLI is between the AAI pilots and the SWA pilots, NOT between SWA or AAI (although they may be interested observers).

What SWA pays the SWA pilots, or what AAI pays the AAI pilots is a matter of contract between those two parties, and is not is not a player in the SLI proceedings.

When SWA starts paying AAI pilots SWA rates, then that takes nothing away from a single SWA pilot, but simply a cost of doing business, and not a zero sum.

However, when the SLI occurs between the two parties, it IS a zero sum game. For every spot you award one side or another, something is taken from the other side.

Under the RLA, a windfall describes such changes in seniority if it significantly changes a person's position, because it will be directly at the expense of another pilot, and that is a matter between the two parties.

But financial changes simply because one contract is more lucrative than another (the relative differental of which IS subject to debate, when quality of life items are included), are typically rendered as not germane because those changes do not affect pilot progression, bidding, vacation or any other seniority related item, and compensation is a matter between the pilot and a third party.

But keep throwing coins in the wishing well...

Nu

 

[Kharma Police]

And I find it odd that one must only be a pilot and/or employee of SWA to understand something actually being taught in Masters programs at many universities across our great land.



This is an acquisition without third party financing. This is completely different. In fact, with regards to M/B, unprecedented.



Really. Let me let the SWA guys chime in on this one. Is corporate culture no longer considered important at SWA?



Contrary to some isolated beliefs on the forum, nothing in this matter will effect my life. But being an objective observer, my money right now is with the SWA pilots experiencing gains in seniority when it is all said and done.



And this feeling from an employee promoting their company is worth more than 300mil.

Airtran employees have a life changing opportunity in front of them. Seniority is the only concern the SWA pilots have. If you don't play ball, you otherwise you may be on the outside looking in. No matter what list you end up on.

Nice try with the altruism bit but I'm not buying it. I would have more respect for your point of view if you would simply say, "I work for Southwest, and this is how I think the AirTran pilots should be integrated". Yet, you continue this farce of being an outsider looking in; trying to be AirTran's Cassandra in hopes that we can save ourselves before it's too late. You have failed your peer review in convincing others, "like yourself" from other airlines to agree with your assessment. Your only audience has been the SWA FOs whom would probably agree with Hitler if he told them to staple the AirTran pilots.

 

[redflyer65]

However, when the SLI occurs between the two parties, it IS a zero sum game.

Under the RLA, a windfall describes such changes in seniority
Nu

Wow. Just keep telling yourself that, or better yet just keep the Airtran pay if its a 'zero sum gain'.

The arbitrator is going to see 60-80% pay difference as a major issue.

Again, what do the Southwest pilots gain with 'fair and equitable'?

 

[GuppyWN]

Under the RLA, a windfall describes such changes in seniority if it significantly changes a person's position, because it will be directly at the expense of another pilot, and that is a matter between the two parties.

Let me double check my USAir/America West, TWA/AA crystal ball and see how your hard-core RLA windfall protection worked for them.

What else you got?

Gup

 

[Sy-bill]

Nice try with the altruism bit but I'm not buying it. I would have more respect for your point of view if you would simply say, "I work for Southwest, and this is how I think the AirTran pilots should be integrated".

I don't need or want your respect. You can believe anything you want. It honestly makes zero difference to me.

You can screw yourselves all you want. I don't care at all. I am only interested in the bewildering attitude that pilots typically have by the "best pay to the last day" rant they have cutting off their noses despite their faces. Pilots are historically the absolute worst business people ever. You as a group have allowed your average earnings lose 35% of their value over the last 30 years. You are your own worst enemies. And you continue to be more concerned about who someone works for (me) than the message being shared.

I know one fact Karma Police or PCL 128 whichever you want to be, airline managers use your seniority to their advantage. And you are falling into that trap right now and you don't even know it. Even when someone has carefully pointed that out to you, you can't fathom your seniority will be affected by this acquisition. You will not get relative seniority. And if this goes as you say, you are endangered of having no seniority.