Will NWA and the Mechs agree?

[Dodge]

flatspin7

Very well done. IF the mechanincs strike, management will file BK shortly. All contracts & pensions will eventually get shredded. There should be no question as to why the NWA ALPA will not support any job action by any labor group.

However, if they don't strike, the mechanics will get locked out so that they can be replaced with the scabs. NWA will still file for BK because all mechanics/pilots/FA's could work for free and they would still lose money. Then all the contracts and pensions will get tossed.

Given what I believe is the inevitable, the mechanics have no choice but to strike on the principal of the outlandish demands that management is requiring.

To all you kids out there, attorneys should be the last people (right behind pilots)to make financial decisions for large corporations.

 

[pilotyip]

with the highest costs in the business what other options does NWA have?

 

[flatspin7]

with the highest costs in the business what other options does NWA have?

The fault here is with both the unions and management...
----Unions wants to preserve their jobs and their paychecks
----Management wants (needs) to cuts costs.

It should be obvious to anyone that there is no all or nothing compromise here. Unfortunatley for everyone involved the word compromise hasnt been discussed. Nobody is really budging.

It sounds like a bankrupcy judge will decide who wins, and managment always wins in these cases.

 

[TonyC]

The fault here is with both the unions and management...
----Unions wants to preserve their jobs and their paychecks

Wow, what a revelation. Unions want to preserve jobs and paychecks?!?!? Amazing!!! Why do you fault unions for trying to preserve jobs and paychecks? Would you prefer unions try to cut jobs and reduce paychecks? Did you hear yourself say that? Have you asked your employer for a pay cut lately? Have you offered to quit?

----Management wants (needs) to cuts costs.

Wants - - not needs - - to cut employee costs. They WANT employees to work for nothing. What they NEED is to increase the INCOME of the business. You can't sell a $500 product for $59 and expect to remain in business.

It should be obvious to anyone that there is no all or nothing compromise here.

What's obvious is that you are confused about the concept of compromise - - "all or nothing" and "comproise" are mutually exclusive. What mutually exclusive means is that it can't be both, or even part of one and part of the other. "All or nothing" is the exact opposite of "compromise." What you said is like saying there is no black white, or there is no white black. It's like saying there are no jumbo shrimp. Wait, jumbo shrimp is one of those oxymoronic features of our lexicon that folks seem content to live with, so that's not a good example. Baby grand... nope, 'nuther one... never mind. "All or nothing" and "compromise" go together like oil and vinegar... no, wait, they mix those, too, for salads. OK, so I can see how you might be confused.

Here, let's clear it up. "Compromise" and "all or nothing" are complete opposites. You can't have both at the same time.

Unfortunatley for everyone involved the word compromise hasnt been discussed. Nobody is really budging.

You also haven't been paying close attention to the process. AMFA offered a package that amounted to $100 million in cost savings per year (by NWA management reckoning). NWA claims it seeks $176 million in savings, so they rejected the offer out of hand.


So, to review, AMFA offered a compromise, and NWA refused.







.

 

[TonyC]

with the highest costs in the business what other options does NWA have?

Hmmmmm...

Smaller pay cuts that AMFA can live with?

Raise ticket prices?


Close the doors?




Why is it that the "only" answer seems to be cut jobs and slash pay?






.

 

[WillowRunVortex]

dang,,,I never thought I would say this but,,,TonyC is one guy you would want on your side during labor negotiations.

 

[Yank McCobb]

Melodrama. From the master. TonyC.

Do you actually hear yourself when YOU say this stuff? Do you sit back, smile and think about what great talent you have?

Yea, I'd want him on my side during negotiations. He'd have 'em squirming in their seats for sure with his exceptional rhetoric.

 

[dondk]

99.8 hours in a month? What a great lifestyle. How long does a person live under those conditions?

Not too long, I can state that.. Been over 100 3 months in a row (by MY choice). If I gave the choice to the company I'd still be over 100 but with less days off via junior manning and extensions.

Is the $$$ worth the headache? not really to block 5 hours more showed very little "net" in the pay check. Uncle sam took away the extra bang for the buck.

The only real benefit to the 100 hour months is that I am that much closer to timing out in November. I would like to be home during the winter meltdows that should happen again this year.

 

[pilotyip]

Tony, I am sure the boys at EAL felt the same way and would have followed your advice

 

[Dodge]

Tony is right.

Management agrees to a contract at signing not under the notion that if everything goes really well for the company, just maybe we'll be able to hold up our end of the deal. They agree to a contract with the mind set of if everything goes poorly, this is what we can still afford to pay.

As far as NWA having the highest labor costs......lets all wind the clock back to 2001. NWA was by far the trailing edge in the legacy (what a self-serving term)carriers pay scale race. After taking a couple of cuts they are now some of the most expensive. That doesn't say much for some of the other airlines.

People, read the annual reports and the financials of NWA. Employee concessions will not do anything to make the airline profitable. Management knows this too. They provide the numbers.

 

[WillowRunVortex]

People, read the annual reports and the financials of NWA. Employee concessions will not do anything to make the airline profitable. Management knows this too. They provide the numbers.

So what is the point of all this posturing? Lets just go BK now. Why is NWA ALPA trying to act like it "hasnt decided what were gonna do yet"? If what you are saying is true, (and it makes a certain amount of sense). NWA ALPA must certainly have done the math on this right? And yet they are acting like NWA might have a chance to stay out of BK. Is this possible? If the mechanics walk NWA is going BK. Why take the ALPA position that it has?

 

[Dodge]

So what is the point of all this posturing? Lets just go BK now.

Honestly, I don't believe there is a point to it. However, BK is a tough pill to swallow for the stockholders. Having shares that were at $11 a year ago to $4 yesterday with the outlook of $.10/share tomorrow is not a pretty picture for the suits at NWA. (They own a lot of shares) This is one of the toughest spots I have ever seen an employee group/employer in.

 

[arthompson]

dondk: uncle sam always takes the extra, but I promise you we all appreciate you doing the flying.

 

[castle bravo]

However, BK is a tough pill to swallow for the stockholders. Having shares that were at $11 a year ago to $4 yesterday with the outlook of $.10/share tomorrow is not a pretty picture for the suits at NWA. (They own a lot of shares)



Actually, insiders have dumped 6,300,000 shares during the last 6 months.

 

[Diesel-9]

IN July over 6 million shares purchased by outside investors. Aig 10th another 5.7 million shares purchased Philip B. Korsant and Ziff Asset Management LP and general partner PBK Holdings Inc. Think a strike of 24-48 hours is likely with operations continuing as normal. Fall schedule starts on the 20th with a 17% reduction from the summer schedule. As part of R. Andersons 10 year plan the company is on track to get its cost in line to compete on any level. Predict other unions will be aboard by the end of the year and NWA in a good position next year. NWAC will continue to be upgraded as it was this week. Bankruptcy very unlikely and not a part of any business plan next year. "Bagdad Bob" has been effective in getting everyone to beleive in all the doom and gloom. p.s. I am sober!

 

[Workin'Stiff]

IN July over 6 million shares purchased by outside investors. Aig 10th another 5.7 million shares purchased Philip B. Korsant and Ziff Asset Management LP and general partner PBK Holdings Inc. Think a strike of 24-48 hours is likely with operations continuing as normal. Fall schedule starts on the 20th with a 17% reduction from the summer schedule. As part of R. Andersons 10 year plan the company is on track to get its cost in line to compete on any level. Predict other unions will be aboard by the end of the year and NWA in a good position next year. NWAC will continue to be upgraded as it was this week. Bankruptcy very unlikely and not a part of any business plan next year. "Bagdad Bob" has been effective in getting everyone to beleive in all the doom and gloom. p.s. I am sober!

Lets all hope this is the outcome...

 

[Dufus1]

NW will use the mechanics as their reason why they couldn't stay out of BK. Can't take the blame themselves. They want it for a couple reasons...
October 17th and get rid of scope w/ NWA ALPA (aka NEWCO)

 

[Diesel-9]

October 18th worry should be how much NWAC to buy.

 

[mynameisjim]

I think the company's plan is arrogant and optimistic. Not that I'm involved in it at all though...


It will all be clear soon enough

 

[Donsa320]

However, BK is a tough pill to swallow for the stockholders. Having shares that were at $11 a year ago to $4 yesterday with the outlook of $.10/share tomorrow is not a pretty picture for the suits at NWA. (They own a lot of shares)



Actually, insiders have dumped 6,300,000 shares during the last 6 months.

And of course someone has bought 6,300,000 shares during those 6 months, no?

~DC

 

[castle bravo]

And of course someone has bought 6,300,000 shares during those 6 months, no?



Yes, but it does not appear to be Checchi or Wilson. You could probably add Steenland, Haan, Griffin and Malek to the list as well.

 

[Donsa320]

And of course someone has bought 6,300,000 shares during those 6 months, no?



Yes, but it does not appear to be Checchi or Wilson. You could probably add Steenland, Haan, Griffin and Malek to the list as well.

Yeah, but I did not mean to imply that insiders bought the stock, just that somebody did....assuming they will make a gain someday, I would presume. I guess I just like to look at the bright side of things. <grin>

~DC

 

[islandhopper]

What is the word about the other organized labor groups at NWA? Will they honor the mechanics picket lines? We got a few hours left before the ball drops I guess.

 

[Donsa320]

What is the word about the other organized labor groups at NWA? Will they honor the mechanics picket lines? We got a few hours left before the ball drops I guess.

If that was for me....I dunno, I'm a NWA retired but knowing NWA, I'd put my money on them. I think the mechs are toast in this one. Just my opinion. You know that $55,000 a year cleaners get about as much sympathy as $200,000 a year pilots when it comes to labor disputes. <grin>

~DC

 

[Irish Pilot]

CNN has a time ticker on right now for the strike deadline....interesting...

 

[ironwedge]

There doesn't seem to be a lot of love from IAM

What is the word about the other organized labor groups at NWA? Will they honor the mechanics picket lines? We got a few hours left before the ball drops I guess.

AMFA could use all the support they can get from IAM, I wonder if this is NWA propaganda or if it's real?

http://forums.airlinepilotcentral.com/showpost.php?p=3116&postcount=4

 

[FN FAL]

CNN has a time ticker on right now for the strike deadline....interesting...

I don't remember if it was fox or cnn, but they just had two analysts on and one was saying NWA has a ton of furloughed mechanics just waiting to cross the picket lines from the other majors. I don't know if that's true or not, it's just what the guy said.

They also said that NWA could outsource the mx off shore. I don't know how well that would work out.

 

[Yank McCobb]

Without comment as to the merit or malice of it...I am certain that NWA has a plan that they believe will work. I do not envision them moving from their stance against the AMFA.

 

[NuGuy]

Heyas,

One thing is for sure, given the copy cat nature of this industry, is that if NWA does pull off operating without the mechanics, every other employee group at every other airline will feel the pain.

It will make what happened in SEA with the ALK ground staff look like a walk in the park.

Nu

 

[WillowRunVortex]

Heyas,

One thing is for sure, given the copy cat nature of this industry, is that if NWA does pull off operating without the mechanics, every other employee group at every other airline will feel the pain.

It will make what happened in SEA with the ALK ground staff look like a walk in the park.

Nu

Why are you and I the only ones on this board with common sense? Everyone else on this board is like "those poor mechanic bastards". Guess what people, insert your groups name in that sentence next time.

I just heard that the PFAA leaked that they are leaning toward a sympathy strike. Wouldnt that throw a monkey wrench in the works.