Will NWA and the Mechs agree?

[Lear70]

Yeah, it's about time Pinnacle matched Mesaba's work rule of 150% pay for all trips picked up...

Oh God, here come all the people telling me "I told you so" for what I'm saying about Mesaba, but I'm just talking about the work rules, not the pay rates, so don't get excited.

 

[arthompson]

Lear: Talk to your ALPA reps and make them at least try to negotiate what you guys want. I have heard however that it's either coming as an LOA or will be in the contract.

 

[Tref]

WRV,

It's a bit late to warn you now, but reading this thread I can't help but think, "it's better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt." You've really shown your true colors.

 

[xanderman]

Cool!

Man! That was a good fight!

 

[skykid]

2. I was teaching myself how to roll Learjets when I was 21. FACT.

I've never been so impressed. FACT.

 

[Deli Guy]

I'm 45 and I keep getting yelled at for trying to roll the DC 9. The last time, I got through about 75 degrees and the nose drops out so the captain says "here let me show you how you idiot!" His came out pretty good but the passengers were screaming and the FA's were crying--well the male ones anyway--and when we landed the gyros were wacked out and the skin on the tail was a little buckled. I was concerned about the next guys who had to fly the airplane and wanted to write it up. I told the captain about the gyros and buckled skin and he said "Son, when you are out there breaking every known rule of a professional aviator--ie out performing the tech order, and thumbing your nose at the FAA, its best not to tell anyone"

P.S. My story was a joke

 

[densoo]

Reuters
Northwest: mechanics' offer falls short
Thursday August 18, 7:53 am ET

NEW YORK (Reuters) - Northwest Airlines Corp. (NasdaqNM:NWAC - News) said late on Wednesday that a new offer by its mechanics' union fell short of the concessions the carrier is seeking, signaling that the sides are far apart as a strike deadline looms.

"We have received a new contract proposal from AMFA (Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association) that appears to fall far short of the $170 million in annual cost savings that the company requires," a Northwest spokesman said.

"Our preliminary estimate is that the offer provides about $100 million in cost savings," the spokesman said. The No. 4 U.S. airline has previously said it is seeking $176 million in annual wage and benefit givebacks from the union, which represents cleaners and custodians as well as mechanics. In addition to salary cuts, the carrier is seeking to halve the AMFA work force of 5,400.

http://biz.yahoo.com/rb/050818/airlines_northwest.html?.v=1

 

[Diesel-9]

99.8 hours in a month? What a great lifestyle. How long does a person live under those conditions?

 

[Redmeat]

99.8 hours in a month? What a great lifestyle. How long does a person live under those conditions?

My thoughts exactly.

 

[flatspin7]

OK---- Now that we have all decided who's Johnson is bigger.....

I am in support of NWA's Unions. But I think they have backed them self into a corner that there really is no excape. Management has shown that they will not budge an inch.

So unfortunatley here is how it will play out.

The second that the Mechanics walk, NWA will fire chapter 11. With a petition to make the CBA with the Mechanics (and maybe the flight attendants) null and void. This will leave NWA free to lay-off any one they please, and pay the people they keep next to nothing. This will also make sympathy strike by flight attendants or pilots (like that will happen) an illegal job action and any one who refuses to return to work will be fired legally.

The net result of this is NWA getting exactly what they want out of this strike. They have the unions playing into thier palms. The Bancrupcy paper work is sitting on the CFO's desk waiting for a signiture.

What NWA isnt taking into consideration is that there will be a rash of "job actions" a la Alaska Airlines. There will be sick outs in all labor groups (including pilots, becuase their retirement will be whittled away) and either some one will flinch first and give in or the company will be in such deep doo-doo that pieces will start to be sold off.

What this means for NWAs future in 5 years --- I don't know

I do not have a MBA but it doesnt take a genious to see this happening

 

[Dodge]

flatspin7

Very well done. IF the mechanincs strike, management will file BK shortly. All contracts & pensions will eventually get shredded. There should be no question as to why the NWA ALPA will not support any job action by any labor group.

However, if they don't strike, the mechanics will get locked out so that they can be replaced with the scabs. NWA will still file for BK because all mechanics/pilots/FA's could work for free and they would still lose money. Then all the contracts and pensions will get tossed.

Given what I believe is the inevitable, the mechanics have no choice but to strike on the principal of the outlandish demands that management is requiring.

To all you kids out there, attorneys should be the last people (right behind pilots)to make financial decisions for large corporations.

 

[pilotyip]

with the highest costs in the business what other options does NWA have?

 

[flatspin7]

with the highest costs in the business what other options does NWA have?

The fault here is with both the unions and management...
----Unions wants to preserve their jobs and their paychecks
----Management wants (needs) to cuts costs.

It should be obvious to anyone that there is no all or nothing compromise here. Unfortunatley for everyone involved the word compromise hasnt been discussed. Nobody is really budging.

It sounds like a bankrupcy judge will decide who wins, and managment always wins in these cases.

 

[TonyC]

The fault here is with both the unions and management...
----Unions wants to preserve their jobs and their paychecks

Wow, what a revelation. Unions want to preserve jobs and paychecks?!?!? Amazing!!! Why do you fault unions for trying to preserve jobs and paychecks? Would you prefer unions try to cut jobs and reduce paychecks? Did you hear yourself say that? Have you asked your employer for a pay cut lately? Have you offered to quit?

----Management wants (needs) to cuts costs.

Wants - - not needs - - to cut employee costs. They WANT employees to work for nothing. What they NEED is to increase the INCOME of the business. You can't sell a $500 product for $59 and expect to remain in business.

It should be obvious to anyone that there is no all or nothing compromise here.

What's obvious is that you are confused about the concept of compromise - - "all or nothing" and "comproise" are mutually exclusive. What mutually exclusive means is that it can't be both, or even part of one and part of the other. "All or nothing" is the exact opposite of "compromise." What you said is like saying there is no black white, or there is no white black. It's like saying there are no jumbo shrimp. Wait, jumbo shrimp is one of those oxymoronic features of our lexicon that folks seem content to live with, so that's not a good example. Baby grand... nope, 'nuther one... never mind. "All or nothing" and "compromise" go together like oil and vinegar... no, wait, they mix those, too, for salads. OK, so I can see how you might be confused.

Here, let's clear it up. "Compromise" and "all or nothing" are complete opposites. You can't have both at the same time.

Unfortunatley for everyone involved the word compromise hasnt been discussed. Nobody is really budging.

You also haven't been paying close attention to the process. AMFA offered a package that amounted to $100 million in cost savings per year (by NWA management reckoning). NWA claims it seeks $176 million in savings, so they rejected the offer out of hand.


So, to review, AMFA offered a compromise, and NWA refused.







.

 

[TonyC]

with the highest costs in the business what other options does NWA have?

Hmmmmm...

Smaller pay cuts that AMFA can live with?

Raise ticket prices?


Close the doors?




Why is it that the "only" answer seems to be cut jobs and slash pay?






.

 

[WillowRunVortex]

dang,,,I never thought I would say this but,,,TonyC is one guy you would want on your side during labor negotiations.

 

[Yank McCobb]

Melodrama. From the master. TonyC.

Do you actually hear yourself when YOU say this stuff? Do you sit back, smile and think about what great talent you have?

Yea, I'd want him on my side during negotiations. He'd have 'em squirming in their seats for sure with his exceptional rhetoric.

 

[dondk]

99.8 hours in a month? What a great lifestyle. How long does a person live under those conditions?

Not too long, I can state that.. Been over 100 3 months in a row (by MY choice). If I gave the choice to the company I'd still be over 100 but with less days off via junior manning and extensions.

Is the $$$ worth the headache? not really to block 5 hours more showed very little "net" in the pay check. Uncle sam took away the extra bang for the buck.

The only real benefit to the 100 hour months is that I am that much closer to timing out in November. I would like to be home during the winter meltdows that should happen again this year.

 

[pilotyip]

Tony, I am sure the boys at EAL felt the same way and would have followed your advice

 

[Dodge]

Tony is right.

Management agrees to a contract at signing not under the notion that if everything goes really well for the company, just maybe we'll be able to hold up our end of the deal. They agree to a contract with the mind set of if everything goes poorly, this is what we can still afford to pay.

As far as NWA having the highest labor costs......lets all wind the clock back to 2001. NWA was by far the trailing edge in the legacy (what a self-serving term)carriers pay scale race. After taking a couple of cuts they are now some of the most expensive. That doesn't say much for some of the other airlines.

People, read the annual reports and the financials of NWA. Employee concessions will not do anything to make the airline profitable. Management knows this too. They provide the numbers.