Will Israel hit Iran???

[HawkerF/O]

Amateur. Israel not whaling on Iraq in the Gulf War had nothing to do with some all important and mysterious "IFF codes," regardless of what you may have seen on Discovery. It doesn't take IFF codes to launch SSMs or air strikes at will. Israel had no problem (with our equipment, as you rightly point out) waylaying all in 67 and 73. 07 would be no different. Israel could be militarily self-sufficient now, even if we took our cash and left 'em on their own. You may not completely respect the IDF, but don't overestimate Arab capabilities.

Further, you seem to have a lack of understanding about how Israel came to be. "The Jews" didn't just pick the fictional country of Palestine out of thin air to settle in. It was their ancestral home for thousands of years. And besides, how Israel was established is a moot point. Currently, Israel is the ONLY fuctional democracy in the Middle East RIGHT NOW, and one of the few SWA countries that doesn't practice terrorism as national policy.

Surely if you had to pick sides, you'd pick Israel over Iran?

What do you think? Of course. Iran needs reform and Israel should be able to go eliminate any military objective that allows that to happen, but politics will not let that happen. I have no problem with that, but people just seem to want to forget the facts and act as though the Jews are the only people in the world have ever been mistreated. I assure you that there are other groups that were treated a lot worse than what they got, either way, it's all disgusting and it is horrible we stood by and let it go on.

I understand how Israel was formed al the way back to biblical times, but at the time, the land was occupied by people other than Israelies. There is n odisputing that. The Palastine people were forced off and mistreated by the evictors and that was not the right way to do that, as history has shown us.

And regardless of what you think, or think you know, there is no way the US was going to allow the Israelies to lob missles over into Iraq and inflame the situation when we clearly have it under control. Do you have any idea what would have hapened to a Israel pilot had he been shot down and captured???????????????? Sure Israel, never you mind our troops or our war plan, you just go ahead and start bombing Iraq. We have detailed plans that we have spent lots of time coming up with, but go ahead, shoot your missles at your discretion and let us know when you get around to it where they landed and what you bombed so we dont haev to launch anymore F117s. I don't think so. Homey don't play that.

Finally, what is wrong with giving Jews 1/2 of Germany? The Germans snatched up the Jews and gased whole famailies!!! What is the harm in taking from the people that did that to them and giving to the victims?

 

[HawkerF/O]

Dude, I just read your post a little more closely. It's riddled with inaccuracies. "Bombed a place here and there, but not much to get upset about?" How about the IDF practically destroying the entire Egyptian AF (on the ground!) in about 2 hours and then pretty much rolling up Egypt, Jordan, Syria and Iraq in the next 6 days? The Yom Kippur War? How 'bout the Sinai and the Golan heights...got 'em, thanks. I think that all qualifies as a full assault.

And nobody else may like 'em, but they surely have a lot of customers for military hardware. India and China are great customers. And another? Turkey. To the tune of almost $1B in arms sales last year. Last time I was there, Turkey was a Muslim country.

By that , I meant bombed or attacked in the past few years. I think they went into Syria last year and blew something up, but it was really no bid deal. Turkey does not sell weapons to Israel.

 

[HawkerF/O]

However, unlike you, I don't think Americans fighting in Iraq are creating insurgents hand over fist. ?

Oh, you're one of those types of idiots. What exactly do you think it is that is causing insurgents to be created hand over fist? The fact that they are no longer repressed by Saddam? Oh yeah, that would bug me too!!

 

[stonewall]

What do you think? Of course. Iran needs reform and Israel should be able to go eliminate any military objective that allows that to happen, but politics will not let that happen. I have no problem with that, but people just seem to want to forget the facts and act as though the Jews are the only people in the world have ever been mistreated. I assure you that there are other groups that were treated a lot worse than what they got, either way, it's all disgusting and it is horrible we stood by and let it go on.

I understand how Israel was formed al the way back to biblical times, but at the time, the land was occupied by people other than Israelies. There is n odisputing that. The Palastine people were forced off and mistreated by the evictors and that was not the right way to do that, as history has shown us.

And regardless of what you think, or think you know, there is no way the US was going to allow the Israelies to lob missles over into Iraq and inflame the situation when we clearly have it under control. Do you have any idea what would have hapened to a Israel pilot had he been shot down and captured???????????????? Sure Israel, never you mind our troops or our war plan, you just go ahead and start bombing Iraq. We have detailed plans that we have spent lots of time coming up with, but go ahead, shoot your missles at your discretion and let us know when you get around to it where they landed and what you bombed so we dont haev to launch anymore F117s. I don't think so. Homey don't play that.

Finally, what is wrong with giving Jews 1/2 of Germany? The Germans snatched up the Jews and gased whole famailies!!! What is the harm in taking from the people that did that to them and giving to the victims?

I didn't say we had nothing to do with Israel not raining steel on Iraq during Gulf War I. I'm glad we didn't allow it. You said it's because we didn't give 'em some IFF codes. I said it had nothing to do with "IFF codes." I don't think I know much, but I know that much. I'm not sure where you pulled that one from.

The Jews ancestral home wasn't located in Frankfurt. Why would they want to settle there? Besides, the Germans weren't the only ones persecuting Jews. Now, if they would've offered the south of France....

Now, back to reality, the formation of Israel is pretty much irrelevant at this point. The facts now are that Israel is the dominant mil power in the region and are surrounded by enemies. I live in VA. If MD, NC, WV, TN, and KY were hell-bent on not just taking my land but killing us all in the process, I'd pretty much make sure I was armed to the teeth. Further, if I knew MD was developing a nuke and has said they are developing said nuke to fulfill the goals of a VA-less world, well, I'm pretty sure I know what my options would be. And that's the point of this thread.

 

[stonewall]

By that , I meant bombed or attacked in the past few years. I think they went into Syria last year and blew something up, but it was really no bid deal. Turkey does not sell weapons to Israel.

I said Israel sells arms to Turkey. Read more closely. Besides...who'd buy a Turkish weapon??

(besides a shotgun of course)

 

[stonewall]

Oh, you're one of those types of idiots. What exactly do you think it is that is causing insurgents to be created hand over fist? The fact that they are no longer repressed by Saddam? Oh yeah, that would bug me too!!

You've spewed random, incoherent, and inaccurate thoughts all over this thread and you call ME and idiot?

Did you even read the article Karma referenced in another thread (to which I was referring)? No. Again...who's the idiot?

 

[KarmaPolice]

Wow, defensive, huh? I agree with you that attacking Iran is not in our best interests. However, unlike you, I don't think Americans fighting in Iraq are creating insurgents hand over fist. I'm sure your initial reaction to all the "innocents" killed in the recent Predator raid in Pakistan was similar to your earlier reaction about the errant bomb in Iraq. But, I don't want to dig up old threads....

How's that C.O. application coming? Still reading the BBC religiously?

Haha, Yeah I need to watch out, That last thread attracted some real hate. Luckily I had a nice long pacific trip and was out of touch, so people got tired of calling me names and accusing me of being Jane Fonda, Cindy sheehan a fake, etc etc.

As for Pakistan, key difference there being that we thought we were going to nail some high profile Al Qaida, not just some Iraqi street insurgents, seems more justified to take some risks.

And the BBC has some good poop occasionally. Always interesting to contrast all the different media outlets.

CO? no way, live in Texas?! Too Red... haha.

 

[TWA]

Ok, a few talking points here.

1. During the 6 Day War, Israel nearly tripled the size of their country. That was shortly after Israel was created.

2. Since the 6 Day War, Israel's weapons have only become more sophisticated and advanced. They do have a larger defence industry than any other country at this time.

3. Everyone in the middle east (except iran), remembers the 6 Day War, recognizes their defense industry and knows that if they screw with Israel, they are only screwing themselves.

4. Israel DOES have nukes. Iran MIGHT have nukes. Even if iran did, Israel's are far more advanced in the guidance and warhead.

5. Israel is becoming recognized as a country by some of the arab countries in the middle east. Turkey is a customer and Egypt is an Ally. If Iran falls, most of the middle east will become pro Israel or at least neutral enough to recognize them as a country.

Ok, that's all for now.

 

[SIG600]

On a side note... should we go to war with Iran, I can just see the dogpile of guys now racing to be the first to shoot down one of their Tomcats (if they even still fly 'em). Anyone else see the irony in a Tomcat RIO, transitioned to Superhornets, shooting down a 'Cat?

 

[stonewall]

On a side note... should we go to war with Iran, I can just see the dogpile of guys now racing to be the first to shoot down one of their Tomcats (if they even still fly 'em). Anyone else see the irony in a Tomcat RIO, transitioned to Superhornets, shooting down a 'Cat?

Wouldn't be hard...I've fought Tomcats once, back in 99. I think he's still turning....

 

[BushwickBill]

Ok, a few talking points here.

1. During the 6 Day War, Israel nearly tripled the size of their country. That was shortly after Israel was created.

2. Since the 6 Day War, Israel's weapons have only become more sophisticated and advanced. They do have a larger defence industry than any other country at this time.

3. Everyone in the middle east (except iran), remembers the 6 Day War, recognizes their defense industry and knows that if they screw with Israel, they are only screwing themselves.

4. Israel DOES have nukes. Iran MIGHT have nukes. Even if iran did, Israel's are far more advanced in the guidance and warhead.

5. Israel is becoming recognized as a country by some of the arab countries in the middle east. Turkey is a customer and Egypt is an Ally. If Iran falls, most of the middle east will become pro Israel or at least neutral enough to recognize them as a country.

Ok, that's all for now.

Not just TWA but all of you guys need to brush up on your middle eastern military history. Please read: The Yom Kippur War by Abraham Rabinovich. I'd say about 90% of the things mentioned on this thread about the Israeli military have been historically inaccurate.

Its a great read and a lot of the lessons learned by the Israeli's during the Yom Kippur war have shaped modern day "sandbox" warfare. I'd hope you would all be up to speed on this stuff. Not a flame just a heads up.

Bill

 

[SIG600]

Wouldn't be hard...I've fought Tomcats once, back in 99. I think he's still turning....

Ba-zing....

 

[That Guy]

Oh, you're one of those types of idiots. What exactly do you think it is that is causing insurgents to be created hand over fist? The fact that they are no longer repressed by Saddam? Oh yeah, that would bug me too!!

What came first, the chicken or the egg?

 

[Gorilla]

Wouldn't be hard...I've fought Tomcats once, back in 99. I think he's still turning....

LOL, nothing like having swing wings telegraph your energy visually from 10 miles away. Of course, during the debrief, you were dead pre-merge because his ultra-agile Phoenix missile nailed you during your 9G defensive beam maneuvering.

 

[stonewall]

LOL, nothing like having swing wings telegraph your energy visually from 10 miles away. Of course, during the debrief, you were dead pre-merge because his ultra-agile Phoenix missile nailed you during your 9G defensive beam maneuvering.

It's funny you mention the phoenix. When I talk to the uninformed, they're usually shocked that the AIM-154 isn't a death-ray like missile. You gotta hand it to the Navy...the PR campaign for all things Tomcat was effective. And, hey, it did its job well in the day, and that missile was designed to kill bombers not fighters. I love all my fighter ancestors from the USN....all in good fun!

 

[phantomdriver]

I hope that israel hits iran and nukes them. I need some glass at a cheap price. I need to replace a windshield for my truck.

 

[Boxav8r]

Sort-of on topic. Raid On The Sun chronicles Israel's operation to take out Iraq's nuke program. Unbelievable story! From the daring mission, tight unit cohesion, to the General who weaseled his way into a seat in the mission.

The Israelis didn't @$&% around either. There were plenty of dead bodies laying around long before the first jet was ever flown in training for the mission. Mossad was incredibly effective in the preparation.

It reads like a real life James Bond novel. They actually flew right over the Jordanian King's yacht enroute to drop the bombs and STILL surprised 'em!

Well worth the read. Very hard to put down.

 

[jetbluedog]

I hope they use them!!

U.S. plans to sell 'bunker busting' bombs to Israel

In-Depth Coverage
By Andrea Stone
17 Feb 2006
WASHINGTON — In a move that could increase pressure on Iran to halt its nuclear arms program, the Pentagon says it will sell to Israel 100 "bunker busting" bombs designed to destroy deep underground weapons facilities.
It is a $30 billion deal. The move coincides with diplomatic talks between Tehran and negotiators from Britain, France and Germany, who want Iran to agree to halt its effort to develop nuclear weapons. The talks have made little progress so far.
Israel has sought the GBU-28 bombs, first used during the 1991 Gulf War, for at least seven years. It would be the first U.S. ally allowed to buy them, says John Pike of GlobalSecurity.org, a defense research group in Alexandria, Va.
"We're saying that if the Israelis were to attack Iran's nuclear facilities, we would support them because we have given them the means to do so," he says. "It's communicating to the (Europeans) and other countries the seriousness with which we view this situation and that if diplomacy does not succeed we are prepared to pursue diplomacy by other means."
The Pentagon said in a statement that the sale would "contribute to the foreign policy and national security of the United States by helping to improve the security of a friendly country that has been, and continues to be, an important force for economic progress in the Middle East."
Israeli Embassy spokesman David Siegel said the bombs are "one component in a basket of measures Israel is acquiring to improve its defensive capabilities in various scenarios."
In addition to Iran, Israel is concerned about Syria, which may have SCUD missiles. Russian President Vladimir Putin, who was in Israel this week, has agreed to sell short-range missiles to Syria.

 

[Gorilla]

Prety weird, the Israelis are good at making their own weapons, and the "bunker busters" are nothing more than an oddly-shaped bomb, designed to penetrate, manufactured of super-hardened steel, and equipped with a delay fuze. There's nothing cosmic there, and nothing the Israelis couldn't copy with ease.

 

[XShipRider]

It's a simple matter...

Thats exactly what I am thinking. I'm just curious how they could pull it off without US cooperation since they have to fly over Iraq. Of course, we probably would have no problem with them doing that, but I'm also thinking that we would "look surprised" when it happens if ya know what I mean...

You repo' the E-2s and E-3s to the Southern regions of Iraq for a couple
days. The carrier group and supporting defenders have radar CASREPs and
anomalies on the day in question. The Air Force, Marines and Navy flyers
have a safety stand-down essentially gounding most or all aircraft for a day.

I can hear the chatter in combat now...
"Hey, you see that?"
"Yeah, flock of migrating birds."
"Birds? They're migrating East. You still think they're birds?"
"Listen, they're migrating birds. Keep watching and you'll see them
migrating back West in a couple hours. If anyone asks, you saw
migrating birds."