Will Israel hit Iran???

[stonewall]

We should let Israel deal with Iran while we work N. Korea. No way we could fight both wars at once, much less win, which is what's coming if we aren't careful. I don't blame Europe for being pacifists considering it's history, but thank god we have at least one ally who isn't afraid to blow sh-t up when appropriate.

I disagree. We're not fighting in Iraq to destroy the country. Some of my buds on FI have been debating with me on another thread about Sherman's March to the Sea. If we chose to fight two wars at once and fought them strictly as wars of destruction, I think we could win 'em both.

If pushed into a corner and fighting to major wars at once, I think it'd be wise of us to say "screw it, we're not buying into the whole 'you-break-it-you-buy-it-Marshall Plan-type-bulls***" this time around. We're laying waste to your countries without regard to CDE or who gets hurt. We target any and all military targets, including those being stored or cammo'd by civilian assets, and just crush all.

If we fought it like that, which I think we would out of necessity (world opinion be dam*ed), I think we could win 'em both. Even non-nuke.

 

[KarmaPolice]

Big f#@king surprise there. The Frogs are probably talking tough in public, and building the Iranians nuke reactor on the down low.

I think we should just do what Dos Gringos sings about in 'World War III', and be done with it.

Fight's on, fight's on!

Here we go, fire away. but...

Umm I think we (like the French) were giving lots of assistance to the Iraqis back then too.

Attacking Iran really isn't in our own best interest. A full scale war with Iran, regime change/occupation would come at a ginormous cost and give us very little security benefit as a result. Look at the cost/benefit ratio. Even a small surgical strike aimed at crippling their program is not a great idea.

Sanctions/Inspections/embargoes and diplomacy, although the language of those girly "pot smoking tree hugging" liberals in the state department, seem like the smartest road to take.

Iran has threatened that if attacked by western powers, it will launch missile strikes against oil fields/infrastructure in Iraq, Kuwait and Saudi Arabia. Oil prices would at least triple or quadruple overnight.

Now would they do it if Israel attacked unilaterally? Who knows. But for now and the foreseeable future, our best interest is served through tough diplomacy.

An Osirak like strike (according to some stuff I've read) isn't thought to be possible anyhow as the Iranians have learned from other's mistakes. Their program is well hidden and dispersed.

Anyway, just some thoughts. And no if you're wondering I'm not a conscientious objector. And I hope my comments won't be beamed via al jazeera to osamas in caves and give them hope.

 

[stonewall]

No way. Israel would be fools to attack Iran on their own without US support, and there is no way the US would go along with Israel doing that. Remember the gulf war when Iraq was firing Scuds into Israel? Not 1 Israel fighter took to the skies because the US would not give them the IFF codes. If Israel attacked ANY Muslim country it would torch the reforms the US is trying to put into place in Iraq and destablize the entire region. Israel has bombed a place here and a target here, but never really doing much damage to get upset about. If they launched a full assault, the entire mislim world would go nuts. Lets not forget how much the Muslims hate jews. They have no greater hate than the hate they have for the people of Israel.
Also, where do you think Israel gets financial and Military support? From the US. Nobody else likes them and wont sell them weapons or anything like that. If the US walked away from Israel, they would be destroyed in less than a week. The Muslims would keep coming and coming and coming and not give up until they have accomplished their desired goal. If Israel wants to cut their own throats, they'll head for Iran with hostile intentions.
One final note: This situation is the fault of the US and England. After WWII, because of the things the Germans did to the Jews and the world standing by and letting it go on, which was no doubt disgusting, but it's what happened. The US and England controlled the UN at that time and thought they would kick the Palastine people off the land they were squatting on and give it to the jews. As history has taught us, that was not a good idea. The UN should have given the Jews 1/2 of Germany. After what the Germans did, they deserved AT LEAST that. But instead, teh UN causes this enormous amount of trouble by kicking poor squatters off land that they had been using for a long long time. There was a better way to handle that, and the US and England controlled UN missed a great chance to avoid all of this. There is no real winner or loser, just death. Where is the honor in that?

Amateur. Israel not whaling on Iraq in the Gulf War had nothing to do with some all important and mysterious "IFF codes," regardless of what you may have seen on Discovery. It doesn't take IFF codes to launch SSMs or air strikes at will. Israel had no problem (with our equipment, as you rightly point out) waylaying all in 67 and 73. 07 would be no different. Israel could be militarily self-sufficient now, even if we took our cash and left 'em on their own. You may not completely respect the IDF, but don't overestimate Arab capabilities.

Further, you seem to have a lack of understanding about how Israel came to be. "The Jews" didn't just pick the fictional country of Palestine out of thin air to settle in. It was their ancestral home for thousands of years. And besides, how Israel was established is a moot point. Currently, Israel is the ONLY fuctional democracy in the Middle East RIGHT NOW, and one of the few SWA countries that doesn't practice terrorism as national policy.

Surely if you had to pick sides, you'd pick Israel over Iran?

 

[stonewall]

Dude, I just read your post a little more closely. It's riddled with inaccuracies. "Bombed a place here and there, but not much to get upset about?" How about the IDF practically destroying the entire Egyptian AF (on the ground!) in about 2 hours and then pretty much rolling up Egypt, Jordan, Syria and Iraq in the next 6 days? The Yom Kippur War? How 'bout the Sinai and the Golan heights...got 'em, thanks. I think that all qualifies as a full assault.

And nobody else may like 'em, but they surely have a lot of customers for military hardware. India and China are great customers. And another? Turkey. To the tune of almost $1B in arms sales last year. Last time I was there, Turkey was a Muslim country.

 

[stonewall]

Here we go, fire away. but...

Umm I think we (like the French) were giving lots of assistance to the Iraqis back then too.

Attacking Iran really isn't in our own best interest. A full scale war with Iran, regime change/occupation would come at a ginormous cost and give us very little security benefit as a result. Look at the cost/benefit ratio. Even a small surgical strike aimed at crippling their program is not a great idea.

Sanctions/Inspections/embargoes and diplomacy, although the language of those girly "pot smoking tree hugging" liberals in the state department, seem like the smartest road to take.

Iran has threatened that if attacked by western powers, it will launch missile strikes against oil fields/infrastructure in Iraq, Kuwait and Saudi Arabia. Oil prices would at least triple or quadruple overnight.

Now would they do it if Israel attacked unilaterally? Who knows. But for now and the foreseeable future, our best interest is served through tough diplomacy.

An Osirak like strike (according to some stuff I've read) isn't thought to be possible anyhow as the Iranians have learned from other's mistakes. Their program is well hidden and dispersed.

Anyway, just some thoughts. And no if you're wondering I'm not a conscientious objector. And I hope my comments won't be beamed via al jazeera to osamas in caves and give them hope.

Wow, defensive, huh? I agree with you that attacking Iran is not in our best interests. However, unlike you, I don't think Americans fighting in Iraq are creating insurgents hand over fist. I'm sure your initial reaction to all the "innocents" killed in the recent Predator raid in Pakistan was similar to your earlier reaction about the errant bomb in Iraq. But, I don't want to dig up old threads....

How's that C.O. application coming? Still reading the BBC religiously?

 

[HawkerF/O]

Amateur. Israel not whaling on Iraq in the Gulf War had nothing to do with some all important and mysterious "IFF codes," regardless of what you may have seen on Discovery. It doesn't take IFF codes to launch SSMs or air strikes at will. Israel had no problem (with our equipment, as you rightly point out) waylaying all in 67 and 73. 07 would be no different. Israel could be militarily self-sufficient now, even if we took our cash and left 'em on their own. You may not completely respect the IDF, but don't overestimate Arab capabilities.

Further, you seem to have a lack of understanding about how Israel came to be. "The Jews" didn't just pick the fictional country of Palestine out of thin air to settle in. It was their ancestral home for thousands of years. And besides, how Israel was established is a moot point. Currently, Israel is the ONLY fuctional democracy in the Middle East RIGHT NOW, and one of the few SWA countries that doesn't practice terrorism as national policy.

Surely if you had to pick sides, you'd pick Israel over Iran?

What do you think? Of course. Iran needs reform and Israel should be able to go eliminate any military objective that allows that to happen, but politics will not let that happen. I have no problem with that, but people just seem to want to forget the facts and act as though the Jews are the only people in the world have ever been mistreated. I assure you that there are other groups that were treated a lot worse than what they got, either way, it's all disgusting and it is horrible we stood by and let it go on.

I understand how Israel was formed al the way back to biblical times, but at the time, the land was occupied by people other than Israelies. There is n odisputing that. The Palastine people were forced off and mistreated by the evictors and that was not the right way to do that, as history has shown us.

And regardless of what you think, or think you know, there is no way the US was going to allow the Israelies to lob missles over into Iraq and inflame the situation when we clearly have it under control. Do you have any idea what would have hapened to a Israel pilot had he been shot down and captured???????????????? Sure Israel, never you mind our troops or our war plan, you just go ahead and start bombing Iraq. We have detailed plans that we have spent lots of time coming up with, but go ahead, shoot your missles at your discretion and let us know when you get around to it where they landed and what you bombed so we dont haev to launch anymore F117s. I don't think so. Homey don't play that.

Finally, what is wrong with giving Jews 1/2 of Germany? The Germans snatched up the Jews and gased whole famailies!!! What is the harm in taking from the people that did that to them and giving to the victims?

 

[HawkerF/O]

Dude, I just read your post a little more closely. It's riddled with inaccuracies. "Bombed a place here and there, but not much to get upset about?" How about the IDF practically destroying the entire Egyptian AF (on the ground!) in about 2 hours and then pretty much rolling up Egypt, Jordan, Syria and Iraq in the next 6 days? The Yom Kippur War? How 'bout the Sinai and the Golan heights...got 'em, thanks. I think that all qualifies as a full assault.

And nobody else may like 'em, but they surely have a lot of customers for military hardware. India and China are great customers. And another? Turkey. To the tune of almost $1B in arms sales last year. Last time I was there, Turkey was a Muslim country.

By that , I meant bombed or attacked in the past few years. I think they went into Syria last year and blew something up, but it was really no bid deal. Turkey does not sell weapons to Israel.

 

[HawkerF/O]

However, unlike you, I don't think Americans fighting in Iraq are creating insurgents hand over fist. ?

Oh, you're one of those types of idiots. What exactly do you think it is that is causing insurgents to be created hand over fist? The fact that they are no longer repressed by Saddam? Oh yeah, that would bug me too!!

 

[stonewall]

What do you think? Of course. Iran needs reform and Israel should be able to go eliminate any military objective that allows that to happen, but politics will not let that happen. I have no problem with that, but people just seem to want to forget the facts and act as though the Jews are the only people in the world have ever been mistreated. I assure you that there are other groups that were treated a lot worse than what they got, either way, it's all disgusting and it is horrible we stood by and let it go on.

I understand how Israel was formed al the way back to biblical times, but at the time, the land was occupied by people other than Israelies. There is n odisputing that. The Palastine people were forced off and mistreated by the evictors and that was not the right way to do that, as history has shown us.

And regardless of what you think, or think you know, there is no way the US was going to allow the Israelies to lob missles over into Iraq and inflame the situation when we clearly have it under control. Do you have any idea what would have hapened to a Israel pilot had he been shot down and captured???????????????? Sure Israel, never you mind our troops or our war plan, you just go ahead and start bombing Iraq. We have detailed plans that we have spent lots of time coming up with, but go ahead, shoot your missles at your discretion and let us know when you get around to it where they landed and what you bombed so we dont haev to launch anymore F117s. I don't think so. Homey don't play that.

Finally, what is wrong with giving Jews 1/2 of Germany? The Germans snatched up the Jews and gased whole famailies!!! What is the harm in taking from the people that did that to them and giving to the victims?

I didn't say we had nothing to do with Israel not raining steel on Iraq during Gulf War I. I'm glad we didn't allow it. You said it's because we didn't give 'em some IFF codes. I said it had nothing to do with "IFF codes." I don't think I know much, but I know that much. I'm not sure where you pulled that one from.

The Jews ancestral home wasn't located in Frankfurt. Why would they want to settle there? Besides, the Germans weren't the only ones persecuting Jews. Now, if they would've offered the south of France....

Now, back to reality, the formation of Israel is pretty much irrelevant at this point. The facts now are that Israel is the dominant mil power in the region and are surrounded by enemies. I live in VA. If MD, NC, WV, TN, and KY were hell-bent on not just taking my land but killing us all in the process, I'd pretty much make sure I was armed to the teeth. Further, if I knew MD was developing a nuke and has said they are developing said nuke to fulfill the goals of a VA-less world, well, I'm pretty sure I know what my options would be. And that's the point of this thread.

 

[stonewall]

By that , I meant bombed or attacked in the past few years. I think they went into Syria last year and blew something up, but it was really no bid deal. Turkey does not sell weapons to Israel.

I said Israel sells arms to Turkey. Read more closely. Besides...who'd buy a Turkish weapon??

(besides a shotgun of course)

 

[stonewall]

Oh, you're one of those types of idiots. What exactly do you think it is that is causing insurgents to be created hand over fist? The fact that they are no longer repressed by Saddam? Oh yeah, that would bug me too!!

You've spewed random, incoherent, and inaccurate thoughts all over this thread and you call ME and idiot?

Did you even read the article Karma referenced in another thread (to which I was referring)? No. Again...who's the idiot?

 

[KarmaPolice]

Wow, defensive, huh? I agree with you that attacking Iran is not in our best interests. However, unlike you, I don't think Americans fighting in Iraq are creating insurgents hand over fist. I'm sure your initial reaction to all the "innocents" killed in the recent Predator raid in Pakistan was similar to your earlier reaction about the errant bomb in Iraq. But, I don't want to dig up old threads....

How's that C.O. application coming? Still reading the BBC religiously?

Haha, Yeah I need to watch out, That last thread attracted some real hate. Luckily I had a nice long pacific trip and was out of touch, so people got tired of calling me names and accusing me of being Jane Fonda, Cindy sheehan a fake, etc etc.

As for Pakistan, key difference there being that we thought we were going to nail some high profile Al Qaida, not just some Iraqi street insurgents, seems more justified to take some risks.

And the BBC has some good poop occasionally. Always interesting to contrast all the different media outlets.

CO? no way, live in Texas?! Too Red... haha.

 

[TWA]

Ok, a few talking points here.

1. During the 6 Day War, Israel nearly tripled the size of their country. That was shortly after Israel was created.

2. Since the 6 Day War, Israel's weapons have only become more sophisticated and advanced. They do have a larger defence industry than any other country at this time.

3. Everyone in the middle east (except iran), remembers the 6 Day War, recognizes their defense industry and knows that if they screw with Israel, they are only screwing themselves.

4. Israel DOES have nukes. Iran MIGHT have nukes. Even if iran did, Israel's are far more advanced in the guidance and warhead.

5. Israel is becoming recognized as a country by some of the arab countries in the middle east. Turkey is a customer and Egypt is an Ally. If Iran falls, most of the middle east will become pro Israel or at least neutral enough to recognize them as a country.

Ok, that's all for now.

 

[SIG600]

On a side note... should we go to war with Iran, I can just see the dogpile of guys now racing to be the first to shoot down one of their Tomcats (if they even still fly 'em). Anyone else see the irony in a Tomcat RIO, transitioned to Superhornets, shooting down a 'Cat?

 

[stonewall]

On a side note... should we go to war with Iran, I can just see the dogpile of guys now racing to be the first to shoot down one of their Tomcats (if they even still fly 'em). Anyone else see the irony in a Tomcat RIO, transitioned to Superhornets, shooting down a 'Cat?

Wouldn't be hard...I've fought Tomcats once, back in 99. I think he's still turning....