WHY WHY WHY..why R we hiring 210 hr pilots?

[DoinTime]

Why can't these people wait a bit and gain experience until they have at least 750+ hours?

Its human nature (especialy pilot nature) to want to progress as quickly as possible. I don't fault a low timer for striving to reach thier goals. Its the airlines that are at fault and 100% of the blame needs to be put on them. The hireing market sucks right now though. There are very few well qualified pilots looking for a minimum wage job.

 

[flyer172r]

Hey the horse is dead, what the heck let's beat it a little more.

Making some arbitrary requirement for the number of hours a 121 FO would need (1500 hours and ATP for example) WON'T ACCOMPLISH ANYTHING! All it would mean is that the CFIs would instruct a few more months and pass one more checkride.

Can someone please post which airlines are hiring pilots at 210 hours?

Unless you can find some way to mandate a certain experience level, i.e. a certain number of IFR X-C PIC hours or something, you're going to have FOs who got all their hours instructing and are shaky flying IFR. Like the old saying goes, just because you can put an hour in your logbook doesn't mean you gained an hour of experience.

Food for thought (or for you to consider flame-bait even though it's not and blast me for it). The FAA requirements for getting an instrument rating in the first place suck. If you can fly a couple approaches and a hold under the hood you can get the rating. To those of you who talk about FOs who don't know what "hold for release" means or can't figure out a hold, those guys shouldn't have an instrument rating in the first place.

Like one of the captains I flew with once said, "Doesn't matter where you came from, everyone sucks when they're new."

 

[Wyatt]

Companys hire em because they are cheap labor...guys just trying to build time who will soldier and not argue or bitch and they cant upgrade till they have an ATP so theyve got guaranteed FO's at a lower cost for a couple of years...

Honestly guys its not that hard to figure out...

 

[FCPhotography]

Cheap labor and nothing will change until there are a few holes in the ground.
I don't care about the lack of experience. The skipper can have a tough day but still stay in his envelope. It is the fact the guys will do it for pennies with those hours. Not good for the industry.

 

[pilotyip]

Why are they being hired? The answer because they can, free market no rules against it.

 

[Prop2Jet]

thats the way the it works these days.... sucks but thats it.

 

[JumpCaptain]

This is a total flammer! Nobody gets a regional job with that little flight time anymore.

 

[spitfire1500]

One problem with all of this though is when movement starts you run out of pilots that can upgrade.

 

[CRJ puppy]

Ummm, you DO still need 250hrs. to get your commercial certificate...So 210 hrs would seem a bit impossible in the 121 environment.

Have a nice flame!

 

[imacdog]

Ummm, you DO still need 250hrs. to get your commercial certificate...So 210 hrs would seem a bit impossible in the 121 environment.

Have a nice flame!

Only under part 61.

 

[Flyingdude]

Many people missing the point

Many of you are missing the point here. I have also flown with good pilots that were both low time and higher time. You are not a good pilot just because you have higher flight times. The point that many are trying to make is that those with more time dealt with wx and other factors that those without have not. These ab-initio programs have proven that a 200hr. pilot can fly a ILS as good as anybody else when things are going according to plan. It is getting the plane on the ground safely when things are going wrong(mechanical problems, weather, and rapidly changing conditions, etc.). Gaining this experience can only be done in the real world, not in a sim. That is why an extra 500--1000hrs. does make you more prepared to fly a jet. During those extra hours you are likely to encounter difficult situations that you must get yourself out of , and it is this that will make you a better pilot. It does not mean you are better soley because you have more hours, but instead better because you have gained more of the most important knowledge. Any 200hr pilot can be trained to fly profiles, but dealing with difficult situations in the air can only be done well by those who have survived them in the past. I am simply saying that someone with more time has a better foundation upon which to draw from.The majority of these low time pilots are very smart and will make excellent pilots. When the krap hits the fan you can only pull from your past experiences, if you have no previous real world experience then you are just another pilot that can fly a perfect ILS in normal conditions.

 

[Flapjack]

"Ummm, you DO still need 250hrs. to get your commercial certificate...So 210 hrs would seem a bit impossible in the 121 environment."

Part 141 is different - got mine around 190 hours.

The single biggest problem with a low-time pilot (straight out of school, less than 1000 hours) is that they just don't know what they don't know. You can't help it - the flight schools tell you how great and how complete your training is.

The best training known to mankind will teach you procedures. Nothing but experience in command teaches decision making. CFIs, night cargo runners, fighter pilots - all make command decisions. This cannot be stressed enough.

Passing the checkride, having good landings, not getting fired once on the line...That is the lowest common denominator. That is literally the lowest rung on the ladder of competency. Go ahead and get hired with low time - just be incredibly boot-licking humble when you get there. You will learn a lot.

The worst part of low-timers at an airline is that when they upgrade, the STILL don't have the practice making decisions. But now they are in charge of their duties, the duties of the FO, the FA, and the entire aircraft. The scope of the responsibility just increased exponentially, and these decisions must be made real world, real time, live without a net. You won't even understand why this is a big deal until you actually do it for awhile.

Put in a couple of years in the right seat, get your upgrade, and you will learn a whole new world all over again. And you will FEAR flying with a low-time pilot in a challenging situation because it's like flying single pilot with a constant distraction - even if the guy has been trained from the best.

Nothing against low timers - it's not your fault that you get hired too soon. But you are too green for the job, and that's just the way it is, college / ab-initio guys. I know, because I was one of you and I am telling y'all that 250 hours and your ratings is just the start.

Some claim that because there are lousy high-time pilots, that must correlate somehow to the number of incompetent low-timers, too. Couldn't be any worse logic - SOME high timers can't cut it because they are in the wrong line of work. But NO low timers can be considered full pilots until they get some practice making decisions.

Blame the airlines, and the airlines alone, for the fact that low timers get hired. But if you're lucky enough to get hired early, just try to listen to your captains as much as you can. Good luck!

 

[gkrangers]

~220 hours and I've yet to fly anything with more than one engine.

 

[MarineGrunt]

~220 hours and I've yet to fly anything with more than one engine.

I wouldn't worry about that just yet. Just make sure you have 100me when you hit 1000tt. Thats the big hurdle for most...

 

[Thedude]

Out of these foreign carriers that people profess about hiring a 200hr wonder. How many of these wonders actually go straight into the right seat for t/o and landing. The majority of these guys are cruise crews meaning they are nothing more that auto-pilot babysitters and high speed radio operators.