WHY WHY WHY..why R we hiring 210 hr pilots?

[pilotkppsg]

Hey pilotyip, did you really fly the Flying Fortress? If so how'd you swing that and what was it like. I saw Aluminum Overcast a few days ago in Ohio.

 

[pilotyip]

B-17 Awesome!!

Yea on the B-17 is awesome, just got done to a tower fly by at DTW for a retiring ATC Controller. How did I get to fly the B-17? I started flying the C-47, 20 years ago for the Yankee Air Museum, hung around cleaned offices, and bused tables at pancake B'fasts, washed airplanes, worked on event committees. I got noticed, never complained and two years ago I was invited to become the Director of Flight Operations for the Yankee Air Museum, and asked to become qualifed in the B-17. It is a big old airplane where nothing happens in a hurry, it is almost so stable that it is hard to make last minute large corrections. It does not respond to power changes, so being stable well before you arrive over the runway is the key to getting on the ground. Power off near stall landing is the way to get it on the ground, over wise it to wants to porpoise if you make wheel landings. On take off you have to use differential power to make it go straight until the rudder becomes effective, which will depend upon what the crosswind is doing. It is a fantasy for me because I was raised on the stories of B-17 crewmembers. I know I am truly lucky and give thanks every time I get a change to fly our B-17. And "I can not resist" In W.W.II you did not need a college degree to fly the B-17, and I think those were pretty capable pilots.

 

[pilotkppsg]

That's cool, i've always wanted to fly one of those, my grandad was a ball gunner in the ETO. I've got a bunch of old bomber flight gear in my house and I thought about dropping the 400 bones to fly on Alumin. Overcast, but I wanna sit up front, not at the waist.

 

[fastbird]

Big difference in the military....it's working for the GOV'T and you're signed up for a lengthy training CONTRACT. Plus, the pay rates are set by DoD and Congress not some whipsaw minded CEO. Huge difference.

There's an article in the WSJ..."Weak Unions enable Corporations to seek Big Concessions." How are they able to do that?

It's because some snot nose brat is willing to work for less just so he be an airline pilot. Or, it's an old fart who only wants to be a pilot and will take what ever job he can get as long as it's flying an airlplane.

The old fart's position can be rationalized. But, every new idiot who comes into the business with that SJS mentality is weakening the status of career field. We're descending to the rates of bus drivers and we're loosing the "Glorified" moniker in the process.

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

Any flying organization, but especially large, public ones like an airline, want to get the best qualified pilots that will it into their organizational culture. So, the reason that U R hiring 210 hour pilots is that you can't get 3000 hr. pilots, and the 210 ones are the best qualified ones that will work in your organization.

Things will only be getting worse over the next 5-15 years, unless something unexpected happens with the oil situation.

Boeing, Airbus, Embraer, Bombardier, Gulfstream, Cessna, Beechcraft, and all the VLJ cos. had about their best years ever last year. The number of new airframes coming online is staggering. NASA predicts 20K light jets by 2020.

The pool of pilots is stable, so with these upcoming new aircraft, there will once again be a "shortage", probably unlike any we have seen before.

It seems like a crappy situation for us now, but it will be improving soon. One example of this is the big raise given to the NetJets pilots. We arent' seeing it in the airlines too much yet, but it's coming.

Good luck!

Cliff
ABY

 

[IFlyFL410]

ABX Air has 250 hr pilots in the right seat of their 767's.

I seriously doubt that.

 

[Ty Webb]

ABX Air has 250 hr pilots in the right seat of their 767's.

No, they don't. They have pilots furloughed, and the most junior CA has been there for 11 years . . . . nice try, though.

And if you really think that 215 hour pilots are "Hired because they demonstrated they can handle it", then you need to post again when (if?) you get out of flight school and into the real world, Sport.

Looks like you're having a tough time even "handling" the message board.:laugh:

 

[YourPilotFriend]

If training is done properly, you can hire zero time guys right out of high school.

 

[Ty Webb]

If training is done properly, you can hire zero time guys right out of high school.

Hah. If this was true, NWA would be recruiting your replacements right now at your local high school, Chief.

But if you really believe it, hey, more power to you, but the days of "God in the left seat, assisted by Radio Boy in the right seat" has long since passed, and for good reason.

 

[urflyingme?!]

"Our students get hired at Mesa"... I don't think there's any guarentees, at least the Gulfstream guys get real experience whether it's a 1900 or not.

tell the 1900 guys from Gulfstream who payed to sit in that seat to come fly an approach to mins in the dead of winter at ohare....then they can say they have expirience.

12 out of my class of 13 got hired. One guy didn't, and there were a few supporting reasons why he didn't.

As for your approach to mins in Ohare, I think I can handle a 35 mile straight in, thank you.

 

[DoinTime]

Why can't these people wait a bit and gain experience until they have at least 750+ hours?

Its human nature (especialy pilot nature) to want to progress as quickly as possible. I don't fault a low timer for striving to reach thier goals. Its the airlines that are at fault and 100% of the blame needs to be put on them. The hireing market sucks right now though. There are very few well qualified pilots looking for a minimum wage job.

 

[flyer172r]

Hey the horse is dead, what the heck let's beat it a little more.

Making some arbitrary requirement for the number of hours a 121 FO would need (1500 hours and ATP for example) WON'T ACCOMPLISH ANYTHING! All it would mean is that the CFIs would instruct a few more months and pass one more checkride.

Can someone please post which airlines are hiring pilots at 210 hours?

Unless you can find some way to mandate a certain experience level, i.e. a certain number of IFR X-C PIC hours or something, you're going to have FOs who got all their hours instructing and are shaky flying IFR. Like the old saying goes, just because you can put an hour in your logbook doesn't mean you gained an hour of experience.

Food for thought (or for you to consider flame-bait even though it's not and blast me for it). The FAA requirements for getting an instrument rating in the first place suck. If you can fly a couple approaches and a hold under the hood you can get the rating. To those of you who talk about FOs who don't know what "hold for release" means or can't figure out a hold, those guys shouldn't have an instrument rating in the first place.

Like one of the captains I flew with once said, "Doesn't matter where you came from, everyone sucks when they're new."

 

[Wyatt]

Companys hire em because they are cheap labor...guys just trying to build time who will soldier and not argue or bitch and they cant upgrade till they have an ATP so theyve got guaranteed FO's at a lower cost for a couple of years...

Honestly guys its not that hard to figure out...

 

[FCPhotography]

Cheap labor and nothing will change until there are a few holes in the ground.
I don't care about the lack of experience. The skipper can have a tough day but still stay in his envelope. It is the fact the guys will do it for pennies with those hours. Not good for the industry.

 

[pilotyip]

Why are they being hired? The answer because they can, free market no rules against it.

 

[Prop2Jet]

thats the way the it works these days.... sucks but thats it.

 

[JumpCaptain]

This is a total flammer! Nobody gets a regional job with that little flight time anymore.

 

[spitfire1500]

One problem with all of this though is when movement starts you run out of pilots that can upgrade.

 

[CRJ puppy]

Ummm, you DO still need 250hrs. to get your commercial certificate...So 210 hrs would seem a bit impossible in the 121 environment.

Have a nice flame!

 

[imacdog]

Ummm, you DO still need 250hrs. to get your commercial certificate...So 210 hrs would seem a bit impossible in the 121 environment.

Have a nice flame!

Only under part 61.