WHY WHY WHY..why R we hiring 210 hr pilots?

[dingo222]

215 hr pilots

This isn't bait or to piss anyone off. It's just my experience as a CFI today. I'm not a 215 hr pilot. I'm a butt crack away from 135 mins; but it makes me wonder.........


Today I did an insurance checkout at my school for a renter who was an FO at a large regional. He held and ATP multi, several type ratings, and was still CFI current. The checkout went perfect, and was done with no problems. He departed for a wedding shortly after the checkout, with his other FO buddy from the same regional. 5 hrs later my school gets a call from the NTSB that his A/C went down. After tons of lying and ego protecting the verdict came in: FUEL EXHAUSTION.

I'm not the best trained pilot. I'm not the most knowledgeable. I'm not the most experienced. Shoot, I've never even stayed at a Holiday Inn Express.

I am a 12 yr ARMY NCO, 3 time combat vet, and understand the value of training and experience. I understand that complacency kills. I've buried people because of it.

What I don't understand are these sily jokers on this site that think that they are god almighty because they are a FO on a 170, or are better than any low timer CFI, or that just because someone is less experienced; means they are less knowledgeable.

I have no idea what and EGT is, but i know what best glide in a seminole is; and its fuel endurance. Am I dumb??? Nope, I know my aircraft and I know well enough that I have no clue about anything on whatever jet he flew. Emphasis on Flew.

They both walked, but I'm sure they will never fly again.

Police your own and quit slamming on some of us low timers. We are not all wonder boys, and those of us that are smart will admit it and learn. Train the trainers, or as i used to tell my soldiers, " teach snakes to kill other snakes." WE have to police our own, and weed out all of the crap. Remember, SH*T floats to the top. Get rid of it before it floats.

My 2 cents worth................... if you don't agree, don't spam the board, but own up and pm me.

 

[Freight Dawg]

Dang gon-it PILOT-YIP I was looking to apply to USA JET this spring when my evil "Training Contract" was up, but I have researched you some. I have a college degree, will that hurt my chances? Whats up with the constant degree thing? Dude you flew in the Navy I assume by the aircraft you have listed, you must of had a degree. So why the negativity?

 

[LuckyDad]

There is no substitute for experience... like it or not, it has been proven over and over again. Yes, a 300 hr pilot can manipulate the controls, but the experienced based judgement isn't there.
The majors like JAL and even United in the 60's were not upgrading people as nearly as quickly as in the regionals now. A 16 year upgrade was commonplace, so by the time the upgrade finally came, the experience was there.
Lastly, the regionals are usually viewed as a place to gain experience for Pilots. True enough. Unfortunately, they are also a place for dispatchers, schedulers, mechanics, F/A's and middle level managers to gain experience. All these things combined into one decision making pool is a real bad situation.

 

[Midnight Flyer]

Lastly, the regionals are usually viewed as a place to gain experience for Pilots. True enough. Unfortunately, they are also a place for dispatchers, schedulers, mechanics, F/A's and middle level managers to gain experience. All these things combined into one decision making pool is a real bad situation.

You're right....

Back in the days when I was with Eagle based out of DFW, the farthest we flew was ICT. Now the commuters/regionals are flying aircraft that are nearly as big as a DC-9 and stealing the longer routes that only the majors had flown for decades.
You're captain always seems to be some 23 year old Ritalin kid.
Where's your experience? Im not saying these guys are not capable of physically piloting the aircraft from point A to point B and some of them, I'm sure, know the systems extremely well and are very "book smart", but again where's the experience level? I guess a perfect example of these punks doing stupid things and making poor decisions was when they took a Pinnacle CRJ up to the maximum altitude to 'have a little fun"...we all know what happened next. It's a given, that about every other flight that I deadhead on nowadays is a barbie jet. The regionals are slowly pushing the majors out.

 

[pilotyip]

Dawg stuff

Dang gon-it PILOT-YIP I was looking to apply to USA JET this spring when my evil "Training Contract" was up, but I have researched you some. I have a college degree, will that hurt my chances? Whats up with the constant degree thing? Dude you flew in the Navy I assume by the aircraft you have listed, you must of had a degree. So why the negativity?

No negativity only a personal opinion. I feel you get a better start on a flying career by flying airplanes, not sitting in a classroom. Having a college degree has nothing to do with flying an airplane, it may be fun to get, it may make you smarter, it may give you the basis for a different career. But why would you want that if you want a flying career? At USA jet most of the pilots we hire have a college degrees, because almost everyone has one. But it does not enter into our hiring decision at all.

 

[pilotkppsg]

Hey pilotyip, did you really fly the Flying Fortress? If so how'd you swing that and what was it like. I saw Aluminum Overcast a few days ago in Ohio.

 

[pilotyip]

B-17 Awesome!!

Yea on the B-17 is awesome, just got done to a tower fly by at DTW for a retiring ATC Controller. How did I get to fly the B-17? I started flying the C-47, 20 years ago for the Yankee Air Museum, hung around cleaned offices, and bused tables at pancake B'fasts, washed airplanes, worked on event committees. I got noticed, never complained and two years ago I was invited to become the Director of Flight Operations for the Yankee Air Museum, and asked to become qualifed in the B-17. It is a big old airplane where nothing happens in a hurry, it is almost so stable that it is hard to make last minute large corrections. It does not respond to power changes, so being stable well before you arrive over the runway is the key to getting on the ground. Power off near stall landing is the way to get it on the ground, over wise it to wants to porpoise if you make wheel landings. On take off you have to use differential power to make it go straight until the rudder becomes effective, which will depend upon what the crosswind is doing. It is a fantasy for me because I was raised on the stories of B-17 crewmembers. I know I am truly lucky and give thanks every time I get a change to fly our B-17. And "I can not resist" In W.W.II you did not need a college degree to fly the B-17, and I think those were pretty capable pilots.

 

[pilotkppsg]

That's cool, i've always wanted to fly one of those, my grandad was a ball gunner in the ETO. I've got a bunch of old bomber flight gear in my house and I thought about dropping the 400 bones to fly on Alumin. Overcast, but I wanna sit up front, not at the waist.

 

[fastbird]

Big difference in the military....it's working for the GOV'T and you're signed up for a lengthy training CONTRACT. Plus, the pay rates are set by DoD and Congress not some whipsaw minded CEO. Huge difference.

There's an article in the WSJ..."Weak Unions enable Corporations to seek Big Concessions." How are they able to do that?

It's because some snot nose brat is willing to work for less just so he be an airline pilot. Or, it's an old fart who only wants to be a pilot and will take what ever job he can get as long as it's flying an airlplane.

The old fart's position can be rationalized. But, every new idiot who comes into the business with that SJS mentality is weakening the status of career field. We're descending to the rates of bus drivers and we're loosing the "Glorified" moniker in the process.

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

Any flying organization, but especially large, public ones like an airline, want to get the best qualified pilots that will it into their organizational culture. So, the reason that U R hiring 210 hour pilots is that you can't get 3000 hr. pilots, and the 210 ones are the best qualified ones that will work in your organization.

Things will only be getting worse over the next 5-15 years, unless something unexpected happens with the oil situation.

Boeing, Airbus, Embraer, Bombardier, Gulfstream, Cessna, Beechcraft, and all the VLJ cos. had about their best years ever last year. The number of new airframes coming online is staggering. NASA predicts 20K light jets by 2020.

The pool of pilots is stable, so with these upcoming new aircraft, there will once again be a "shortage", probably unlike any we have seen before.

It seems like a crappy situation for us now, but it will be improving soon. One example of this is the big raise given to the NetJets pilots. We arent' seeing it in the airlines too much yet, but it's coming.

Good luck!

Cliff
ABY

 

[IFlyFL410]

ABX Air has 250 hr pilots in the right seat of their 767's.

I seriously doubt that.

 

[Ty Webb]

ABX Air has 250 hr pilots in the right seat of their 767's.

No, they don't. They have pilots furloughed, and the most junior CA has been there for 11 years . . . . nice try, though.

And if you really think that 215 hour pilots are "Hired because they demonstrated they can handle it", then you need to post again when (if?) you get out of flight school and into the real world, Sport.

Looks like you're having a tough time even "handling" the message board.:laugh:

 

[YourPilotFriend]

If training is done properly, you can hire zero time guys right out of high school.

 

[Ty Webb]

If training is done properly, you can hire zero time guys right out of high school.

Hah. If this was true, NWA would be recruiting your replacements right now at your local high school, Chief.

But if you really believe it, hey, more power to you, but the days of "God in the left seat, assisted by Radio Boy in the right seat" has long since passed, and for good reason.

 

[urflyingme?!]

"Our students get hired at Mesa"... I don't think there's any guarentees, at least the Gulfstream guys get real experience whether it's a 1900 or not.

tell the 1900 guys from Gulfstream who payed to sit in that seat to come fly an approach to mins in the dead of winter at ohare....then they can say they have expirience.

12 out of my class of 13 got hired. One guy didn't, and there were a few supporting reasons why he didn't.

As for your approach to mins in Ohare, I think I can handle a 35 mile straight in, thank you.