WHY WHY WHY..why R we hiring 210 hr pilots?

[EngineThunder]

Engine Thunder all the more reason not to spend your money on a college flight program. Much cheaper to do it at a Part 61 or 141 flight school in a quick program.

Is there such a thing as a cheap 141 school? I agree with you about Part 61. I went through a small but respectable 141 program and cheap is not the word I would use to describe it.




GO BUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

Why is 20K/yr it so bad?, it is an entry level position. After doing it for about 18 months you have a 1000 hrs of 121 TJ MEL SIC time and you can almost immediately double your pay by moving to the cargo side of the business.

Entry level positions:

RJ driver requirements-- PVT, COMM, INST, Medical, background check-- 2years to aquire ratings at a very fast pace + another two years minimum to get competitive times (a low 1000 hours TT)----Pay rate 20k a year.


Meter reader for a gas company-- Be able to drive a car and read english-- Pay rate $27,700 a year. (neighbor just started this week)

Do the two top out differently? Yes.......if the pilot is lucky.

Should a meter reader EVER make more than an airline pilot flying a 20 million dollar airplane? The answer should be obvious.

 

[pilotyip]

Meter Reader?

If you want to be a meter reader by all means go for it. If you are out to make Millions stay out of aviation. Go to a top name college take the hardest courses they have, get into Harvard, Michigan or Sanford's MBA program. Then name your price on what it would take for to work for someone. This has nothing to do with wanting to fly for a living. Flying is still a great career. Where else can a guy without a college degree have a good chance of making $100K yr with 12-16 days off per month by his early 30's. If you really like to fly and are not in it for respect, prestige, $100K to start out, it is a great place to do something you love and be paid for it. Many people only dream about a job like that. There are too many negative vibes on this board. This might tend to discourage a person who thinking about flying as a career. Do not be discouraged, flying is still a great career. I would recommend it to anyone who likes to fly.

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

Yip,

The point is not that one should become a meter reader if they want to fly. Your contention that an RJ is an entry level job and that 20k is a good pay for this is what I question.

10 years ago I did better than 20k flying first year on a 32 seat turboprop. And even then that was not an entry level job. Entry level for pilots is CFI, and 135 freight and charter.

There should never be a time when 121 on a 60,000 pound jet should be considered entry level or pay as bad as 20k.

Why would anybody feel that an airline pilot flying a 20 mil jet should ever be paid less than a meter reader that does not require one shread of education or training?

The only reason I can think of is that you are mgmt. and are trying to justify why your guys over there get paid so poorly on the 9's and Falcons. Pay scales all over are taking a beating, but come on, 20k for a 50 seat jet? You can get 40k flying a Cirrus for a company. (Yep 40k, got a friend from the FBO doing it, with full benefits too.)

 

[pilotyip]

kero I detech negative vibes, you are going drive away the guys who want to be pilots or make them think you can only be successful as a pilot if you are unhappy.

 

[Towelie]

Where else can a guy without a college degree have a good chance of making $100K yr with 12-16 days off per month by his early 30's.

Whatever, dude. Maybe 5 years ago but not today.

You are an unrealistic moron who needs to quit while he is behind.

Oh, yeah... and stop smoking crack.

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

kero I detech negative vibes, you are going drive away the guys who want to be pilots or make them think you can only be successful as a pilot if you are unhappy.

If it only pays 20k now and tops at 60 or 70k.....why would the kids in highschool now even consider spending 60 to 100k+ to learn to fly?

You can be happy being a pilot, but chasing an RJ for 20k in the hopes that one day, if you are lucky you may make it to SWA or UPS is not the way to do it.

By the way, in my state you are eligible for food stamps if you only make 21000 a year.....about 2 grand more than your average RJ new hire.........There is no excuse for that! Garbage truck drivers do much better than that.

 

[ReverseSensing]

...you are going drive away the guys who want to be pilots or make them think you can only be successful as a pilot if you are unhappy.

Did you mean: "You can only be successful in management if you make pilots unhappy"?

Besides, what harm would it do to the profession if we "drive away the guys who want to be pilots"? A scarcity of pilots, and more pilots with high career expectations, would be a blessing to everyone currently employed as a professional pilot.

 

[FreightNazi]

If you want to be a meter reader by all means go for it. If you are out to make Millions stay out of aviation. Go to a top name college take the hardest courses they have, get into Harvard, Michigan or Sanford's MBA program. Then name your price on what it would take for to work for someone. This has nothing to do with wanting to fly for a living. Flying is still a great career. Where else can a guy without a college degree have a good chance of making $100K yr with 12-16 days off per month by his early 30's. If you really like to fly and are not in it for respect, prestige, $100K to start out, it is a great place to do something you love and be paid for it. Many people only dream about a job like that. There are too many negative vibes on this board. This might tend to discourage a person who thinking about flying as a career. Do not be discouraged, flying is still a great career. I would recommend it to anyone who likes to fly.

YIP, would you quit your BS on how unprofitable aviation is. Every 4 yrs. I make a million just on salary alone, not counting A-plan and B-plan. And I've got quite a few years left to retirement. If you stay at a place like USAjet, you will never make millions, but at a select few airlines, it's entirely possible to make seriously big bucks and have a great lifestyle and QOL to go along with it.

One more thing I forgot to add in the above paragraph. When our new contract is finished I should be down to just over 3 years to make a million on salary alone.

 

[VABB]

If you want to be a meter reader by all means go for it. If you are out to make Millions stay out of aviation. Go to a top name college take the hardest courses they have, get into Harvard, Michigan or Sanford's MBA program. Then name your price on what it would take for to work for someone. This has nothing to do with wanting to fly for a living. Flying is still a great career. Where else can a guy without a college degree have a good chance of making $100K yr with 12-16 days off per month by his early 30's. If you really like to fly and are not in it for respect, prestige, $100K to start out, it is a great place to do something you love and be paid for it. Many people only dream about a job like that. There are too many negative vibes on this board. This might tend to discourage a person who thinking about flying as a career. Do not be discouraged, flying is still a great career. I would recommend it to anyone who likes to fly.

YIP, please don't take this the wrong way, but you are an idiot.

First of all, it's STAMFORD not Sanford. Second, having an MBA simply means you have a graduate degree in business administration, it does not translate to an automatic career with an income exceeding $100K/yr. I am willing to bet that MBA grads (with maybe a few, and I emphasize few) from Harvard, Stamford, and Michigan are NOT going into an interview and "naming their price". MBA's are a dime a dozen and most are lucky to land a job at the Tim Horton's at I-94 and Rawsonville road.

Flying is still not a great career. The $100,000/yr with 12-16 days off a year can only be found at a select few carriers, and NONE of them are in YIP. Sure, you can make $100k/yr out of YIP, but you are home 12-16 days out of the YEAR and are probably busting duty-time FAR's in the process.

And by the way, $100K/yr is not a lot of money, unless you live on Green Acres. Do you know how far 100 Grand gets you in the Detroit area? Not too far from Ypsilanti. 10 years ago it was a lot of money, but not today. After taxes, that translates to about $65,000.00 in take-home pay for the year. The average price for a decent house in metro Detroit is just under $200,000.00, and in a decent area. Of course, you could settle for a used fixer-upper in one of the trashy dope-dealing neighborhoods of lovely Belleville. How about a car, going to need one of those too. 401K? Going to have to fund that too, because the last time I checked USA Jet didn't have a roaring pension fund.

YIP, $100,000 in today's dollars is good money, but not great money.

If you really want to fly, do it as a hobby. The majority of the flying jobs available are not even worth going to.

 

[mullet]

First of all, it's STAMFORD not Sanford.

I think he meant Stanford University in Palo Alto, CA.

 

[NYCPilot]

If it makes you happy, do it. The low wages sure haven't kept anyone away. You really can't be in this business and achieve longevity unless you have a sincere passion for it. Period. Money or no money, pilots are willing to fly for the going rate.

 

[MDAutry]

You know I think that PilotYip has several valid points to offer. Aviation is not for the weak hearted, neither is life. For all of the negative post out there and all of the people who say get out of aviation... I say go ahead, get out of aviation you are one less seniority number for the rest of us to deal with. My father has an MBA and Accounting degree from the University of North Carolina and that never stoped him from losing several jobs because a new manager came to his department and fired everyone. A furlough if you will. Life is not easy so quit complaining all the time.

Also, to keep on track with the inital post... Do you Captains out there think that pilots should fly for a small 121, 19 seater before they go to a regional. I think either that or they should fly cargo but then again I am not in the know.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

The title of this thread... WHY WHY WHY..why R we hiring 210 hr pilots?

Who is we? Are pilots hiring pilots? Air Line Pilots do not run airlines. Perhaps some of you need to know your place.

As some stated.. supply and demand. Besides, if I had the opportunity to fly a jet with 250 hours sure I would go for it. The major pilots are pissed at the regionals for flying RJs. the RJ pilots are pissed at the CFI for getting hired 'early'. What is wrong with you people?

Instead of trying to cram the way the world works into your narrow mind, why not accept things for what they are.

Grow. Mature. Expand. Elighten. Read. Think.

Now....let's continue...

As a "I am better than you" pilot you are not going to change the dymanics of 250 hour pilots getting jobs. A safety issue? maybe? can you intelligently make the case? I didn't think so. (I did say intelligently).

Low time pilots are blank pages. They know they are low time. They are ready to learn. Teach them. It is a great opportunity to prevent bad habits from ever being started.

Make the best of it..... That last thing we need is stupid pilots mentoring new pilots....

 

[bafanguy]

The title of this thread... WHY WHY WHY..why R we hiring 210 hr pilots?

Who is we? Are pilots hiring pilots? Air Line Pilots do not run airlines. Perhaps some of you need to know your place.

As some stated.. supply and demand. Besides, if I had the opportunity to fly a jet with 250 hours sure I would go for it. The major pilots are pissed at the regionals for flying RJs. the RJ pilots are pissed at the CFI for getting hired 'early'. What is wrong with you people?

Instead of trying to cram the way the world works into your narrow mind, why not accpet things for what they are.

Grow. Mature. Expand. Elighten. Read. Think.

Now....let's continue...

As a "I am better than you" pilot you are not going to change the dymanics of 250 hour pilots getting jobs. A safety issue? maybe? can you intelligently make the case? I didn't think so. (I did say intelligently).

Low time pilots are blank pages. They know they are low time. They are ready to learn. Teach them. It is a great opportunity to prevent bad habits from ever being started.

Make the best of it..... That last thing we need is stupid pilots mentoring new pilots....

...what Rez said...