WHY WHY WHY..why R we hiring 210 hr pilots?

[808pilot]

hey 'ihaveapension'.....you're right, the kid looks like a punk....but i find it hard for you to make any kind of a point when that picture was taken by the captain....thanks for showing us that captain is setting a good example for his 'punk' fo.....

bafanguy...right on.....

 

[IHaveAPension]

hey 'ihaveapension'.....you're right, the kid looks like a punk....but i find it hard for you to make any kind of a point when that picture was taken by the captain....thanks for showing us that captain is setting a good example for his 'punk' fo.....

bafanguy...right on.....

I'm more that confident that the captain is a punk too! That's the problem with most commuters, they are all inbred, punk f/o to punk captain who think their $hit don't stink because they fly a cool RJ.

 

[BoilerUP]

I'm more that confident that the captain is a punk too! That's the problem with most commuters, they are all inbred, punk f/o to punk captain who think their $hit don't stink because they fly a cool RJ.

As opposed to being an ultra-cool ABX/DHL wannabe that spends hours upon hours posting flamebait and drivel on the board under a vast multitude of names?

 

[SkyBoy1981]

As opposed to being an ultra-cool ABX/DHL wannabe that spends hours upon hours posting flamebait and drivel on the board under a vast multitude of names?

Pwned. Good game.

 

[DC8 Flyer]

Quick question, do you Captains get this heartburn from the low time or from the attitudes?

I started out with a 121 carrier with low time, 1200/300, but I, like my whole class, took a huge bite of humble pie before going to training and going online and really had no problems. The guys my Captains complained about the most were the ones with the real crappy attitudes, like wanting to fly a jet and not a T prop, complaining about being junior manned for 1 day out of the month, etc.

Most guys are happy to have a job and are thrilled to be where they are and want to learn from you guys. It seems like the willingness to "teach" a new FO the ins and outs (im not talking basic flying skills) is going downhill. You older guys need to step up your game and realize 99% of us (FOs) want to learn and love our job. Don't beat on us so hard for making small mistakes or asking questions just because you had a bad experience with a SJS FO.

The best captains I fly with are always giving me little tidbits on how to do this or that with the operation or with the airplane and letting me make my own mistakes and fix them without hacking up a hairball, the worst are the ones who second guess every single decision, sit there and shake there heads, etc. I don't want or need my hand held, but there is a reason you are the Captain and I am the FO, YOUVE DONE THIS BEFORE! Share the knowledge!

 

[RichardRambone]

Dang right DC-8.

 

[AMCKLC]

I have not heard from any of the 200hr guys. I am self being a 200 hr that works at ASA/Skywest. ( I just broke 500hrs last month) I must admit that it has been a real challenge. I have made mistakes. I still get caught on the low end of the power curve sometimes during 20+ kt X-wind landing. What else does anyone want to know?

 

[IHaveAPension]

I have not heard from any of the 200hr guys. I am self being a 200 hr that works at ASA/Skywest. ( I just broke 500hrs last month) I must admit that it has been a real challenge. I have made mistakes. I still get caught on the low end of the power curve sometimes during 20+ kt X-wind landing. What else does anyone want to know?

Hey AMCKLC, you mean to tell me that they did not teach you how to land a jet in a crosswind during your ERAU CAPT training? Where elsw would you have gotten a DC-9 type rating? I bet the guys love flying with you!

 

[bafanguy]

Quick question, do you Captains get this heartburn from the low time or from the attitudes?

I started out with a 121 carrier with low time, 1200/300, but I, like my whole class, took a huge bite of humble pie before going to training and going online and really had no problems. The guys my Captains complained about the most were the ones with the real crappy attitudes, like wanting to fly a jet and not a T prop, complaining about being junior manned for 1 day out of the month, etc.

Most guys are happy to have a job and are thrilled to be where they are and want to learn from you guys. It seems like the willingness to "teach" a new FO the ins and outs (im not talking basic flying skills) is going downhill. You older guys need to step up your game and realize 99% of us (FOs) want to learn and love our job. Don't beat on us so hard for making small mistakes or asking questions just because you had a bad experience with a SJS FO.

The best captains I fly with are always giving me little tidbits on how to do this or that with the operation or with the airplane and letting me make my own mistakes and fix them without hacking up a hairball, the worst are the ones who second guess every single decision, sit there and shake there heads, etc. I don't want or need my hand held, but there is a reason you are the Captain and I am the FO, YOUVE DONE THIS BEFORE! Share the knowledge!

DC8flyer,

You said what I was trying to say, only better than I did, and from the right side of the cockpit. You demonstrated the attitude I was trying to explain.

Attitude is a huge determinant as it drives most other factors in the equation.

It's unfortunate this thread deteriorated into the "histrionics" I mention in my original post and prevented anything remembling an intelligent discourse. Apparently, a little anger management is in order for some. Let's see...we've managed to work in PFT, RJ's, SJS, "mine doesn't stink, but yours does", "you didn't come along the way I did so YOU are inferior", what happened to scabs ??...no one worked scabs into the "discussion".

I'm waiting...don't disappoint me.

Angry outbursts hardly add to the debate.

 

[DC8 Flyer]

DC8flyer,

You said what I was trying to say, only better than I did, and from the right side of the cockpit. You demonstrated the attitude I was trying to explain.

Attitude is a huge determinant as it drives most other factors in the equation.

It's unfortunate this thread deteriorated into the "histrionics" I mention in my original post and prevented anything remembling an intelligent discourse. Apparently, a little anger management is in order for some. Let's see...we've managed to work in PFT, RJ's, SJS, "mine doesn't stink, but yours does", "you didn't come along the way I did so YOU are inferior", what happened to scabs ??...no one worked scabs into the "discussion".

I'm waiting...don't disappoint me.

Angry outbursts hardly add to the debate.

Anyone who went to ERAU or Purdue is a scab!

 

[dabandermac]

that punk is a 23 year old captain at pinnacle...honestly. i must admit i feel safer having that yahoo at the controls...

This is what you get when you hire punks to fly RJ's...

http://community.webshots.com/photo/10445022/181262593CNYBYC

 

[fam62c]

Why are we hiring 210 hour pilots?

Because there is a ready supply of these people and they are willing to work for what the small airlines will pay.

 

[joe_pilot]

So a guy with 800 hours in a 172 is more qualified than the guy with 200 hours in the same type of airplane?

...

Yes

 

[Mugs]

All the experienced pilots on furlough in this industry, yet look at the experience level of the guy that was in the right seat of the Pinnacle CRJ that went down in Missouri. I had a discussion with an MBA neighbor (that doesn't know much about our industry) after he read the WSJ article about the accident. He asked about the possibility of me going back to flying the small jets that he has flown on if I lost my current job. I asked him if he would move or commute several hundred miles for a 17K a year job. After I explained how all this works, he just couldn't believe it. But he came away with much more insight into the article he read. Sad.

 

[Tarzan]

I have not heard from any of the 200hr guys. I am self being a 200 hr that works at ASA/Skywest. ( I just broke 500hrs last month) I must admit that it has been a real challenge. I have made mistakes. I still get caught on the low end of the power curve sometimes during 20+ kt X-wind landing. What else does anyone want to know?

And they hire these guys over 1200 hour guys because they paid up?!?!? W....T.......F?????????? Sorry bud but guys like you are whats driving the pay down out there. Why would an airline want to pay someone when they can get someone to pay them for the same training? The thing you guys that paid your money forget is that no amount of money can buy experience or judgement. You only get that with time in the seat.

 

[Crash Pad]

So you pay someone $15,000 a year and are shocked that you can't get top notch 10,000 hour candidates. Don't worry I'm guessing some old Delta mainline guys will be available in a couple of months. Maybe then you can start a thread about hiring old, washed up, crusty, slam click, pilots.

 

[Sherpa]

Yeah, I guess the military has it all wrong.

I'm over it.

 

[EngineThunder]

210 hour pilots don't see anything wrong with flying in the right seat of a 50 seat jet and making $20,000. It simply brings the entire industry down, one person at a time.

Just my .02

 

[pilotyip]

$20K year for an entry level job that does not require a college degree is a great start. Trouble is too many pilots have gone to college and feel 20K per year to start is not up to what their classmates are making. 10 years later most will be in the $100K range. That is not bad with 12-15 days off per month.

 

[EngineThunder]

I understand that going to a $20,000 a year job after flight instructing seems great and that one could possibly be making 100K in ten years, but $20,000 for a 50 seat SIC. That is terrible.

 

[hoover]

I know it's a repeated thread. I don't want to offend anybody. This is not a flame bait. I just don't get it and I am almost feeling depressed. Why are we hiring people with 215 hours? I don't care who you are, you can only do so much with 215 hours of experience. I don't care if it was the greatest flight school. I don't care if you have a type rating. Why do regionals hire people with so little hours? Someone help me understand this. Are we ready to fly with a person who has 215 total hours in the middle of winter in the mid west? ERI? LGA? DCA? ?? If you have, how was that? Is it really safe? really? I think it's extremely unsafe. This is nothing personal towards people with that kind of hours, but I certainly feel that if you are that person, you don't belong in the right seat of an RJ. I am sorry.

-what regionals are hiring people with just over 200 hours? Why????? I just can't comprehend.

You can only hire the people who are applying. Maybe the airline is having trouble attracking "qualified" candidates. My airline is.

That aside, I do not accept that pilots are "unqualified" merely because they are low time.

 

[pilotyip]

Why is 20K/yr it so bad?, it is an entry level position. After doing it for about 18 months you have a 1000 hrs of 121 TJ MEL SIC time and you can almost immediately double your pay by moving to the cargo side of the business.

 

[WillowRunVortex]

Why is 20K/yr it so bad?, it is an entry level position. After doing it for about 18 months you have a 1000 hrs of 121 TJ MEL SIC time and you can almost immediately double your pay by moving to the cargo side of the business.

And turn in your uniform for Dickie's pants and Dickie's boots, cause that is the only clothing that has an even remote chance of lasting with the amount of work you will experience. Also, your pay will increase but the amount of sleep will be cut in half. Prepare to have a dispatcher tell you that your going to pick up a near max load of freight at an airport you have never heard of before. Knowing how to operate a fork lift comes in handy on these trips at 03:00. And forget that shiny terminal with the jetways and the occasional good-looking flight attendant (I know I'll get flak from the old timers about "good looking" flight attendants, but they are out there). Say hello to an aluminum latter to climb into the jet and "fred" the truck driver who is 4 hours late with your freight.

Edit 1: And when was the last time you regional guys sat in a hotel on the Mexican border with absolutely no clue when you would get back to your base?

Welcome to the wonderful world of on demand cargo if you so choose.

 

[Towelie]

$20K year for an entry level job that does not require a college degree is a great start. Trouble is too many pilots have gone to college and feel 20K per year to start is not up to what their classmates are making. 10 years later most will be in the $100K range. That is not bad with 12-15 days off per month.

Are you high or just very misinformed?!?

Most of the 10 year pilots at the large regional I work for aren't anywhere near $100k. If you are assuming that just because you have been in the industry for 10+ years you are at a major or making the top of the payscale, you are dead wrong.

Pre-9/11, most would have gone on to majors and they would probably be making that much. Not now though. The freaking upgrade at many large regionals is about 5 years.

You need to check your math.

 

[EngineThunder]

Why is 20K/yr it so bad?, it is an entry level position. After doing it for about 18 months you have a 1000 hrs of 121 TJ MEL SIC time and you can almost immediately double your pay by moving to the cargo side of the business.

An entry level position that required serious time and $$$$$$$$$$ to get. So why be so happy with $20K? Probably spent more to get all licenses and ratings.

 

[BYUFlyr]

The only thing that I've noticed to be consistant with the low timer threads is the only ones that make the argument that a 200 hrs guy is ready, is the 200 hrs guy. How the hell do know if you are ready of not. Every captain, unless of course they started at a regional with 200 hrs knows all to well that you guys can't find your a$$ with both hands in the dark. The 200 hrs dudes defend their position out of the insecurity they feel because they only have 200 freaking hours. Grow up, quit trying to cut corners, and get off mommy's nipple some where else other than the 121 environment------freaking tools. You sound like whiney a$$ luke crying to yoda, I'm ready,----I really am waaahhhhhhhhhhhh. Thats why you clowns are all willing to work for free, or pay for training because deep
down inside you know your skills are in the toilet.

I know I can't type or spell so don't use that as a defense to this thread. That is another low timer trick. Pick apart the spelling and grammar because you have no other rebuttal.

Where are all these 200 hour posts? Looks like 95% of the posts are from 2000+ hr pilots.... It wasn't even originated by a low-time pilot.

So... where are all these whinny "200 freaking hour" pilots? I have 400 hrs and happy as pig in poop flying the right seat of an old Cessna while I finish my bachelor's degree.

When I complete my Bachelor's degree, in a couple of years, if someone offers me a job flying a jet you can rest assured that I will turn it down because I still have more instructing left to do.... Yeah right! Who in their right mind would? If you were offered a job at UAL back when you had 200 hrs, would you say, "naw, I better not, I don't want to become a hinderance to Captain so and so." Of course you wouldn't!! Isn't everyone out here (including yourself) always looking for something bigger and better?

That's just the reality of it, IMO.

 

[pilotyip]

Engine Thunder all the more reason not to spend your money on a college flight program. Much cheaper to do it at a Part 61 or 141 flight school in a quick program.

 

[Goose Egg]

Deleted.

 

[FN FAL]

And turn in your uniform for Dickie's pants and Dickie's boots, cause that is the only clothing that has an even remote chance of lasting with the amount of work you will experience. Also, your pay will increase but the amount of sleep will be cut in half. Prepare to have a dispatcher tell you that your going to pick up a near max load of freight at an airport you have never heard of before. Knowing how to operate a fork lift comes in handy on these trips at 03:00. And forget that shiny terminal with the jetways and the occasional good-looking flight attendant (I know I'll get flak from the old timers about "good looking" flight attendants, but they are out there). Say hello to an aluminum latter to climb into the jet and "fred" the truck driver who is 4 hours late with your freight.

Edit 1: And when was the last time you regional guys sat in a hotel on the Mexican border with absolutely no clue when you would get back to your base?

Welcome to the wonderful world of on demand cargo if you so choose.

Depends on who you fly freight for.

 

[Mugs]

Why is 20K/yr it so bad?, it is an entry level position. After doing it for about 18 months you have a 1000 hrs of 121 TJ MEL SIC time and you can almost immediately double your pay by moving to the cargo side of the business.

It's great......right out of high school.