Why Was Comair Not Sold?

[IFLYASA]

When you buy Comair, you also buy the liability for the lawsuits from the crash. The lawsuits pending are probably the value of Comair, so that's why you really can't give Comair away.

Nobody will ever buy Comair until the lawsuits are settled. My guess is Delta will just phase them out, sadly.

 

[TJflyboy]

Only one lawsuit, and it a judge overturned a law in order for it to proceed, something with punitive damages in Kentucky, anyhow I doubt its a factor, one case open all others settled, I believe they have all been settled for quite sometime...

 

[Draginass]

Sounds like Comair and American Eagle are in the same predicament . . . unsaleable due to obsolete airplanes.

 

[B727FA]

You were there with me I assume? I have a little different view of the MEC that forced the strike, and it's obviously not favorable. Of course, you are are talking the last nine years and I'm talking the three years prior to that where they could have had everything they wanted without the strike, but it is what it is and there is no sense of rehashing it now.

However, when somebody asks "Why was Comair not sold?" It's a direct result of what happened during he summer of 2001 and the continuing fallout ever since.

Nobody "forced" you to walk. You ALWAYS had/have the choice to cross...if you didn't believe in it, why'd you walk? (Since you "were there...")

You don't get the privilege of 20/20 hind-sight b/c you don't like how it's gone "since then" when we, as a labor group, hold people with whom we don't agree (read SC&*#'s) DURING the labor action, to be FOREVER accountable for their actions then AND now.

BTW--surely you're not saying that the last 9 years HAVEN'T had *ANYTHING* to do with the sale/non-sale? Seriously? (Yes, he might be saying that...and don't call me "Shirley." In honor of the 30th Birthday of "Airplane!")

It's amazing, back then the OH drivers were "heros" and "drawing a line in the sand..." Now, they're vilified as (nearly) Mesa-esque. Please, understand, I think it's sick they took concessions for metal; but when it comes out in the wash, they had bigger balls then (and now) than most of the posers on here did when they were still creaming at the thought of flying for a living.

 

[B727FA]

Only one lawsuit, and it a judge overturned a law in order for it to proceed, something with punitive damages in Kentucky, anyhow I doubt its a factor, one case open all others settled, I believe they have all been settled for quite sometime...

You are correct...

 

[CarjCapt]

cause and effect

I was there. Walked and would again. We did that because the time was right. While some may disagree we did get what we wanted, a better contract. What I don't agree with is the thinking that Delta management, after we struck them, became vindictive and decided to punish Comair. If anyone says different please state that you got it directly from someone in upper management and not from "talking head pilots". The reason, I believe, things have happened the way is because of "market" forces especially after 911. I hated to see Comair demise from the premier regional in the country to a also ran, but alas it is what it is. I'm a optimist and hopefully Delta has bigger and better plans for Comair and that selling wasn't one of them.

 

[Raoul Duke]

You are naive if you really think Delta did not punish Comair for the strike.

 

[CarjCapt]

You are naive if you really think Delta did not punish Comair for the strike.

Prove it, with quotes from then CEO, or any board member of Delta.

When I say market forces that means the bean counters realized that with the contract came high costs and therefore changes in how they do business. That is self evident watching the events over the last 10 years.

If you want to call it "punishment" so be it. I believe it was just business.

 

[Bugsmasher Plus]

Nobody "forced" you to walk. You ALWAYS had/have the choice to cross...if you didn't believe in it, why'd you walk? (Since you "were there...")

You don't get the privilege of 20/20 hind-sight b/c you don't like how it's gone "since then" when we, as a labor group, hold people with whom we don't agree (read SC&*#'s) DURING the labor action, to be FOREVER accountable for their actions then AND now.

BTW--surely you're not saying that the last 9 years HAVEN'T had *ANYTHING* to do with the sale/non-sale? Seriously? (Yes, he might be saying that...and don't call me "Shirley." In honor of the 30th Birthday of "Airplane!")

It's amazing, back then the OH drivers were "heros" and "drawing a line in the sand..." Now, they're vilified as (nearly) Mesa-esque. Please, understand, I think it's sick they took concessions for metal; but when it comes out in the wash, they had bigger balls then (and now) than most of the posers on here did when they were still creaming at the thought of flying for a living.

No, I didn't walk, I wasn't a pilot. I was a "mid-level" manager that got an 8 week unpaid vacation that summer courtesy of the strike. I have a different view of the work action and how it affected Comair from a unique perspective from within. I left the company shortly after and have two distinct feelings about the years I spent there. One, is that it was simply the best experience I've ever had in the industry based on my years during the last half of the '90s. The second was the change in culture related to the strike ane the Delta buyout which crippled the company to the point where I chose to leave.

I have never considered the pilots there as heros (far too many of them as personal friends), nor have I ever blamed them for what happened to them as a company. To me, it was the unreasonable leadership of the MEC that brought Comair down and has made it so miserable for so many people.

The strike forced the labor cost of the carrier so high that that it was to be non-competitive with the rest of the industry. In the end it did nothing except grow the other carriers and shrink Comair. All the "fun" was gone at that point.

Today, Comair is nothing but a lame duck and it will be until it fades away due to the high cost structure. It's a shame.. but as somebody that was there throughout the entire turnover from pre-Delta and pre strike through post Delta and post strike I'm not surprised that the company is no longer marketable.

 

[General Lee]

I was there. Walked and would again. We did that because the time was right. While some may disagree we did get what we wanted, a better contract. What I don't agree with is the thinking that Delta management, after we struck them, became vindictive and decided to punish Comair. If anyone says different please state that you got it directly from someone in upper management and not from "talking head pilots". The reason, I believe, things have happened the way is because of "market" forces especially after 911. I hated to see Comair demise from the premier regional in the country to a also ran, but alas it is what it is. I'm a optimist and hopefully Delta has bigger and better plans for Comair and that selling wasn't one of them.

Yeah, Leo Mullin didn't mind losing $1 BILLION on your strike......no hard feelings, right? Riiiiiiight. Your strike changed how DL operates DCI. They learned that giving a regional "control" of one hub gave that regional too much control of hub traffic in the event of a strike. So what do they do now? They spread out regionals at all the hubs, and often put several different carriers on the same routes, just in case one carrier strikes the others can still fly that particular route. That is why a lot of Comair pilots commute now, all because of the failed strike. Sure, the strike did give you things that you needed (higher pay etc), but also gave you a lot of negatives and DL management ideas on how to handle a regional strike in the future.

Also, it was stated that Comair was up for sale, but nobody has bitten as of yet. I wonder what will happen if nobody does bite in the future? Sounds like DL management wants out of regional ownership.



Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[cmrflyer]

Same old story General. Delta have wanted to get rid of comair for the past five years.

Sad that a bunch of regional pilots had to teach Delta managment how to run airlines, they always seemed so smart. Weird.

 

[Beergut]

Yeah, Leo Mullin didn't mind losing $1 BILLION on your strike......no hard feelings, right? Riiiiiiight. Your strike changed how DL operates DCI. They learned that giving a regional "control" of one hub gave that regional too much control of hub traffic in the event of a strike. So what do they do now? They spread out regionals at all the hubs, and often put several different carriers on the same routes, just in case one carrier strikes the others can still fly that particular route. That is why a lot of Comair pilots commute now, all because of the failed strike. Sure, the strike did give you things that you needed (higher pay etc), but also gave you a lot of negatives and DL management ideas on how to handle a regional strike in the future.

Also, it was stated that Comair was up for sale, but nobody has bitten as of yet. I wonder what will happen if nobody does bite in the future? Sounds like DL management wants out of regional ownership.



Bye Bye--General Lee

I don't usually agree with the General but he is correct on this one.

 

[bri5150]

I don't usually agree with the General but he is correct on this one.

Nevermind

 

[Bugsmasher Plus]

Yeah, Leo Mullin didn't mind losing $1 BILLION on your strike......no hard feelings, right? Riiiiiiight. Your strike changed how DL operates DCI. They learned that giving a regional "control" of one hub gave that regional too much control of hub traffic in the event of a strike. So what do they do now? They spread out regionals at all the hubs, and often put several different carriers on the same routes, just in case one carrier strikes the others can still fly that particular route. That is why a lot of Comair pilots commute now, all because of the failed strike. Sure, the strike did give you things that you needed (higher pay etc), but also gave you a lot of negatives and DL management ideas on how to handle a regional strike in the future.

Also, it was stated that Comair was up for sale, but nobody has bitten as of yet. I wonder what will happen if nobody does bite in the future? Sounds like DL management wants out of regional ownership.



Bye Bye--General Lee

You are right on the "money" General... I believe it's only a matter of time before the carrier shrinks away and the flying goes elsewhere. The CVG hub is now only a shell of what it once was.

 

[Bugsmasher Plus]

Same old story General. Delta have wanted to get rid of comair for the past five years.

Sad that a bunch of regional pilots had to teach Delta managment how to run airlines, they always seemed so smart. Weird.

Kind of like touching a hot stove, learning a lesson you don't want to repeat a second time.

 

[ozpilot]

Don't always agree with you General but your spot on here. So much for the Delta 'family'

 

[cmrflyer]

Funny how delta management is punishing comair. Its even funnier that its now NWA management running Delta.
They pissed away 1 billion dollars to save 20 million of the course of the contract, and some how thats the comair pilots fault.
The stupidity of deltas management has put comair where it is now, they are beyond belief.
General, you are a cool aid drinking moron, keep smoking whatever it is that gets you through your days. You are a twat!

 

[buscap]

Just for the record, my feelings about the Comair strike is that it was a courageous bar raiser, very much in line with what ALPA claims to be all about. Unfortunately it nearly coincided with an industry downturn which negated the regional pilot's ability as a whole to profit from it.

Now some of the Comair pilot group's action after the fact are what I believe are making them the recipient of grave dancing in our current environment. And they are also very much the victim of the CVG hub shift, not just Delta's ire.

 

[Broke in CVG]

Yeah, Leo Mullin didn't mind losing $1 BILLION on your strike......no hard feelings, right? Riiiiiiight. Your strike changed how DL operates DCI. They learned that giving a regional "control" of one hub gave that regional too much control of hub traffic in the event of a strike. So what do they do now? They spread out regionals at all the hubs, and often put several different carriers on the same routes, just in case one carrier strikes the others can still fly that particular route. That is why a lot of Comair pilots commute now, all because of the failed strike. Sure, the strike did give you things that you needed (higher pay etc), but also gave you a lot of negatives and DL management ideas on how to handle a regional strike in the future.

Also, it was stated that Comair was up for sale, but nobody has bitten as of yet. I wonder what will happen if nobody does bite in the future? Sounds like DL management wants out of regional ownership.

Bye Bye--General Lee

First off, Delta didn't actually lose $1b, they had work disruption insurance for 90 days. Why do you think the strike lasted 89?

Secondly, our cost structure is handicapped not by our contract but because of the extremely Sr pilot group. Had they offered a DECENT buyout last year they would have had quite a few takers - however they offered a joke of a buyout and received a collective laugh from the Sr pilots. When you have 10 year FOs and 1/2 the CAs drawing 18+ year pay it makes for an expensive cockpit.

 

[Full of LUV]

Just for the record, my feelings about the Comair strike is that it was a courageous bar raiser, very much in line with what ALPA claims to be all about. Unfortunately it nearly coincided with an industry downturn which negated the regional pilot's ability as a whole to profit from it.

Now some of the Comair pilot group's action after the fact are what I believe are making them the recipient of grave dancing in our current environment. And they are also very much the victim of the CVG hub shift, not just Delta's ire.

Quit spreading sanity and honesty on FI, it will get you nowhere.....