Why I am extremely nervous about 9E bankruptcy.

[bri5150]

9E has some serious primacy issues that go on during training. I did not hear from any of my trainers that the before landing checklist is done as a flow until sim lesson 7. It is not in the book that way, but apparently it is done that way on the line. Another primacy issue is HAA. If you want us to say the heading airspeed and altitude for every takeoff roll, put it in the profile so I learn the right calls the first time. Don't stick it in some obscure part of the CFM. That is just two of the many issues that come up while going through training. While some of the transition captains I am sure have their own personal issues, learning through fear and intimidation is not the most effective way to teach. That is a lot of the problem.

 

[suupah]

Wow sounds like 9E has a very poor training program if so many experienced pilots are having difficulties.

The 9E training department would disagree.

 

[DoinTime]

Don't get bitter-its true-I mean who fails a cry 200 captain during IOE who has been flying that same plane for the last 4-5 years as a captain?

Someone who is a real idiot?

 

[MACH-TUCK]

In all my years at Pinnacle, I have never had problems with my paycheck, it seems weird that all of a sudden there's major problems...I myself was screwed on the middle of March pay check and I still haven't heard a word back from the company.

 

[Simon Says]

The 9E training department would disagree.

Just because I quoted Suupah, this isn't referenced at him or anyone in particular, but here is an example of mis-guided thinking.

Tell me why the training department thinks it is OK to command the aircraft to break speed limitations on every take off out of ATL. It is not anywhere in the book to dial the speed to 250kts while the flaps are still down. And please don't tell me that it's in the memo. I looked and the memo says ATL tower wants us to accelerate as soon as practical out of ATL...which means to me that we can disregard the speed 210 until 3000 AGL.

It is poor airmanship that the flight standard guys thinks it is OK to dial dirictly up to 250 kts, with the A/P on, and the flaps down. A better technique is to actually dial the speed to 210 or even 220 while the flaps are in transition. Once the flaps are up then dial it up to 250.

Beware...if anyone responds that the flaps will retract by the time you reach the speed limitation, I will flame you with several "real life" scenerios where you break the speed limitation and none of them involve a flap fail. Then I will crucify you about absolutely poor technique and airmanship.

 

[Simon Says]

Someone who is a real idiot?

I can think of a few XJ guys.

BTW, my time in 9E training was nothing buy respectful. Once again I appreciated everyones proffessional courtesy and understanding. My Sim instructors and Check Airman where all top notch and quite frankly not given the tools to properly do their job, but each and everyone of them adepted and got the job done.

Although I can assure you that both my sim partner and myself are two senior XJ guys, neither one of us had any attitude what-so-ever. That may of been our different experience. Mutual respect.

Now, can I please have the spelling police correct all of my errors.

 

[bri5150]

Simon,

I completely agree with your post. I was not treated differently than any other pilot by the training department. That doesn't mean it was a good program though.

 

[Simon Says]

Simon,

I completely agree with your post. I was not treated differently than any other pilot by the training department. That doesn't mean it was a good program though.

I suppose that is true.

 

[IBNAV8R]

The wrong type of planes for a stand-alone operation where you have to pick up the tab for your own fuel. They will not bite the hand(s) that feed them.

Only if companies were as loyal as domesticated dogs. When the bowl is empty, all bets are off.

 

[marycon]

In all my years at Pinnacle, I have never had problems with my paycheck, it seems weird that all of a sudden there's major problems...I myself was screwed on the middle of March pay check and I still haven't heard a word back from the company.

The problem is that they have switched to this new Rainmaker payroll system. Before each carrier tracked, coded, and paid differently. Now they are integrating 3 seperate payroll systems into one and it is not going smoothly. They probably thought it would all transition neatly but it did not.

 

[777forever]

Just because I quoted Suupah, this isn't referenced at him or anyone in particular, but here is an example of mis-guided thinking.

Tell me why the training department thinks it is OK to command the aircraft to break speed limitations on every take off out of ATL. It is not anywhere in the book to dial the speed to 250kts while the flaps are still down. And please don't tell me that it's in the memo. I looked and the memo says ATL tower wants us to accelerate as soon as practical out of ATL...which means to me that we can disregard the speed 210 until 3000 AGL.

It is poor airmanship that the flight standard guys thinks it is OK to dial dirictly up to 250 kts, with the A/P on, and the flaps down. A better technique is to actually dial the speed to 210 or even 220 while the flaps are in transition. Once the flaps are up then dial it up to 250.

Beware...if anyone responds that the flaps will retract by the time you reach the speed limitation, I will flame you with several "real life" scenerios where you break the speed limitation and none of them involve a flap fail. Then I will crucify you about absolutely poor technique and airmanship.

You guys are wierd over there with your procedures. The technique you crucify is the exact procedure at ASA. We fly v2+15 til 1000agl then twist in 250(class B airports) and call for flaps up as soon as the trend vector goes positive. 3 1/2 years on the CRJ2/7/9 I have never seen anyone overspeed the flaps after takeoff

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk

 

[COOPERVANE]

8 years never seen it happen. Then again I don't turn the AP on. I think you might be over concerned about the acceleration to 250. It's "as soon as practicable" not "break whatever limitation you have to to get there ASAP"

You guys are weird.

 

[CptMurf]

Although I can assure you that both my sim partner and myself are two senior XJ guys, neither one of us had any attitude what-so-ever. That may of been our different experience. Mutual respect.

Whatever. I heard your sim partner was a real tool and barely passed the checkride!

I agree though, mutual respect, and a overall good training experience.


“We are each our own devil, and we make this world our hell.”
― Oscar Wilde

 

[Flyer1015]

Apply, apply, apply! You never know what interview you'll land until you apply! Don't give up, and good luck!

 

[Simon Says]

Murph,

I was going to go off until I saw who wrote that. MF'ers.

 

[N813CA]

Just look at Comair

 

[xjhawk]

Those who are saying the ones who failed are tools or bad pilots-you are all just idiots. Those original pinnacle pilots who are saying the XJers are tools or idiots-you are an idiot. Let me just say this-

I find where ever you go there is a 10/10/80% rule. 10% are idiots 10% are mean rule people and 80% are okay or good people (the exception being the US Army where it is a 20/20/60 rule).

That being said I have heard plenty of 9E training stories and have heard about the results in the news plenty of times. I am not bashing here, I am just stating fact. 9E's training practices has issues. If an OE instructor second guesses a pilot when they make a perfectly sound decision that will just set up the pilot for saying....."what do you want to do now since you did not like the last thing I did?" Then the idiot OE guy fails the guy for not being a captain. "Are you sure?" questions are not appropriate when there was nothing wrong with what the person did or said. That ******************** was cut out of mesa bas training years ago.

Want another example on how the way they are treating mesaba pilots, especially Saab pilots in a way that sets them up for failure? How about hours of instruction on how to say altitude changes and talking on the radio?

 

[CptMurf]

Those who are saying the ones who failed are tools or bad pilots-you are all just idiots. Those original pinnacle pilots who are saying the XJers are tools or idiots-you are an idiot. Let me just say this-

I find where ever you go there is a 10/10/80% rule. 10% are idiots 10% are mean rule people and 80% are okay or good people (the exception being the US Army where it is a 20/20/60 rule).

That being said I have heard plenty of 9E training stories and have heard about the results in the news plenty of times. I am not bashing here, I am just stating fact. 9E's training practices has issues. If an OE instructor second guesses a pilot when they make a perfectly sound decision that will just set up the pilot for saying....."what do you want to do now since you did not like the last thing I did?" Then the idiot OE guy fails the guy for not being a captain. "Are you sure?" questions are not appropriate when there was nothing wrong with what the person did or said. That ******************** was cut out of mesa bas training years ago.

Want another example on how the way they are treating mesaba pilots, especially Saab pilots in a way that sets them up for failure? How about hours of instruction on how to say altitude changes and talking on the radio?

Hawk, I was Simon's sim partner. I was just yankin his chain. We had a good experience. There was not even a chance of failure on either of our parts. We were treated with nothing, but respect.

 

[bri5150]

The training program is just a part if the problem. Having to spend time following up on pay issues, spending time trying to find information in very random spots in manuals, not being booked for hotels in training, and stuffing 27 people in 2 vans for a 30 minute drive to and from the training center all take a toll on your ability to fully concentrate on what you need to know. I made it through, but it was not a very good learning experience. As with murph and simon, I was not treated poorly because I was Mesaba. Its just a bad setup right now. That's all.

 

[Simon Says]

8 years never seen it happen. Then again I don't turn the AP on. I think you might be over concerned about the acceleration to 250. It's "as soon as practicable" not "break whatever limitation you have to to get there ASAP"

You guys are weird.

So you command the autopilot to break a limitation in the aircraft? Why?

I find this to be bad airmanship even if you don't break the actual limitation.