Why I am extremely nervous about 9E bankruptcy.

[bri5150]

This is not, repeat NOT, a bash on pilots of any carrier. Pinnacle headquarters has some serious issues in every department I have interfaced with. Payroll is obvious. Training scheduling was horrible (people showing up in Memphis without hotel rooms). Getting my 2 weeks hotel and per diem for being displaced was a nightmare. My son had surgery the end of March and planning made up a buildup schedule because of the timing of my fed ride in March. It took 3 emails and a phone call to get something that was workable for me to be home for his surgery and it still wasn't exactly what I needed. Scheduling changes a deadhead for me to get a flight out on time, but doesn't change the FO and FA. Ops says we can't carry a dog because of a deferral that was never on an aircraft. They won't call maintenence and maintenence won't call them to get the problem corrected (we took the dog anyways). Scheduling codes a sick call as scu (unpaid), but instead of owning up to the mistake and getting it fixed themselves, they put it on me to get it fixed with payroll (see problem 1). All of these things happened to me since I got on the line the middle of March and are just a small portion of what is going on.

I am honestly concerned because bankruptcy may lower costs, but it doesn't get rid of a culture of either not caring or not being able to do your job. In fact, I would argue that it may encourage it. The pilot contract is not the problem. The problem is that it takes two or three people in HQ to get even the most minor tasks done. I am not confident this place can make it through chapter 11 and I have absolutely no confidence in any of our employees in Memphis. I am worried Delta gave us some cash to keep the doors open until they can find someone to cover our flying.

 

[Raskal]

I'm not sure it was better or worse before. The Delta inspired business of paying the lowest southern wages and high turnover is what creates the culture you speak of. XJ was pretty much there but the merger sped it along. The revolving door that is dispatch, the mx department that is struggling to maintain the fleet with no spare planes (and now no parts stock). I think this is just a more accurate portrayal of the future. Not just of our company but of the industry.

When is the last time you had a conversation with dispatch that you didn't have to actively guide them through the problem at hand?

 

[GOULET!]

This situation plays right into Delta's playbook. Not only are the Saabs and Qs gone but so will probably half of the 200s. If you are in the bottom half of the company and are planning to stick it out, you are nuts. Consider yourself lucky if there are only 800 furloughs out of this.

 

[sinkrate]

This is not, repeat NOT, a bash on pilots of any carrier. Pinnacle headquarters has some serious issues in every department I have interfaced with. Payroll is obvious. Training scheduling was horrible (people showing up in Memphis without hotel rooms). Getting my 2 weeks hotel and per diem for being displaced was a nightmare. My son had surgery the end of March and planning made up a buildup schedule because of the timing of my fed ride in March. It took 3 emails and a phone call to get something that was workable for me to be home for his surgery and it still wasn't exactly what I needed. Scheduling changes a deadhead for me to get a flight out on time, but doesn't change the FO and FA. Ops says we can't carry a dog because of a deferral that was never on an aircraft. They won't call maintenence and maintenence won't call them to get the problem corrected (we took the dog anyways). Scheduling codes a sick call as scu (unpaid), but instead of owning up to the mistake and getting it fixed themselves, they put it on me to get it fixed with payroll (see problem 1). All of these things happened to me since I got on the line the middle of March and are just a small portion of what is going on.

I am honestly concerned because bankruptcy may lower costs, but it doesn't get rid of a culture of either not caring or not being able to do your job. In fact, I would argue that it may encourage it. The pilot contract is not the problem. The problem is that it takes two or three people in HQ to get even the most minor tasks done. I am not confident this place can make it through chapter 11 and I have absolutely no confidence in any of our employees in Memphis. I am worried Delta gave us some cash to keep the doors open until they can find someone to cover our flying.

Not pointing fingers either

With the exception of HR from the VP level up there are no former PCL management types left, they are all former Mesaba. PCL management has been gone for some time. Most of the managers at the director level are former Mesaba also.

All of the problems and the culture you illustrate came with Mesaba management. The 'culture' Prior to Spanjers takeover was completely different. One time in 20+ years pay was one day late. Pay corrections were rare and normally small. They were taken care of within a few days.

Spanjers reduced the staff in almost every department by one third without any plan for the remaining staff to pick up the load. Many departments have been instructed by the VP's (former Mesaba) to simply stop performing support functions for pilots/fa's etc. Menke probably is not aware of that.

The only thing this company has in common with the former PCL is it operates CRJ's. At that point all similarities end. The 'culture' has done a 180. We have been nuked back to where we we were 15 years ago. That happenned under Spanjers and his managment team. It appears to be what Delta wants. One of the reasons Trenary was let go by the board of directors was he wouldn't bend to Delta's requests. Spanjers has.

This company ain't PCL and it ain't Mesaba. We need to start fom scratch with a clean slate about the way we think of this company. I too am very concerned. The operational expertise of this airline has been gutted. Most of the middle management that was very experienced in their areas of expertise and the workhorse of the organization has left management. They refuse to work for the current mangement team. They have been replaced by people that may be nice, but they don't have anywhere near the qualifications or experience to do the jobs they are in. The result is predictable and we are all suffering for it.

Delta is pursueing their business model for regionals brutally. They have taken ground services away from the regional partners and consolidated it under 'regioanl elite' and DGS. Delta directly controls ground service almost everywhere we go. The only thing a regional now supplies is crews, maintence and insurance. Delta owns and supplies the rest. This business is completely different from the one regionals were in 15 years ago. With six different contracters that supply crews Delta will do business with the cheapest supplier. They are not interested in a complete package.

Delta didn't create the Colgan mess but they could have been a 'white knight' and kept PCL out of BK with a lot less effort than they are putting into this now. Why did they push PCL over the brink? What is happening at PCL will have a big impact on ASA's and Republic's current negotiations.

 

[jetstream]

I think in the long run Delta is only hurting themselves. Running a safe airline that can maintain good aircraft dispatchability and on time performance ( what Delta wants from their connection carriers) costs money. By continually driving down what they are paying connection carriers, Delta is destroying the ability of these carriers to furnish the quality of service they demand. Costs can only be reduced so far before quality is affected. I think we have reached that point.

 

[Theoden]

Not pointing fingers either

With the exception of HR from the VP level up there are no former PCL management types left, they are all former Mesaba. PCL management has been gone for some time. Most of the managers at the director level are former Mesaba also.

All of the problems and the culture you illustrate came with Mesaba management. The 'culture' Prior to Spanjers takeover was completely different. One time in 20+ years pay was one day late. Pay corrections were rare and normally small. They were taken care of within a few days.

Spanjers reduced the staff in almost every department by one third without any plan for the remaining staff to pick up the load. Many departments have been instructed by the VP's (former Mesaba) to simply stop performing support functions for pilots/fa's etc. Menke probably is not aware of that.

The only thing this company has in common with the former PCL is it operates CRJ's. At that point all similarities end. The 'culture' has done a 180. We have been nuked back to where we we were 15 years ago. That happenned under Spanjers and his managment team. It appears to be what Delta wants. One of the reasons Trenary was let go by the board of directors was he wouldn't bend to Delta's requests. Spanjers has.

This company ain't PCL and it ain't Mesaba. We need to start fom scratch with a clean slate about the way we think of this company. I too am very concerned. The operational expertise of this airline has been gutted. Most of the middle management that was very experienced in their areas of expertise and the workhorse of the organization has left management. They refuse to work for the current mangement team. They have been replaced by people that may be nice, but they don't have anywhere near the qualifications or experience to do the jobs they are in. The result is predictable and we are all suffering for it.

Delta is pursueing their business model for regionals brutally. They have taken ground services away from the regional partners and consolidated it under 'regioanl elite' and DGS. Delta directly controls ground service almost everywhere we go. The only thing a regional now supplies is crews, maintence and insurance. Delta owns and supplies the rest. This business is completely different from the one regionals were in 15 years ago. With six different contracters that supply crews Delta will do business with the cheapest supplier. They are not interested in a complete package.

Delta didn't create the Colgan mess but they could have been a 'white knight' and kept PCL out of BK with a lot less effort than they are putting into this now. Why did they push PCL over the brink? What is happening at PCL will have a big impact on ASA's and Republic's current negotiations.

Are you kidding me? Pinnacle had a good culture before and now its bad? I'm sure you're right that things are worse, but a 180? Didn't 9E's SOC collapse twice and have to be taken over by NWA temporarily? Before 7/1/2010 I was on reserve and all I did was work flights picked up by XJ that 9E had cancelled for lack of crews. There's no question that things have gotten worse, and I'm not the biggest fan of JS. However, we didn't have these problems when he was running the ship at XJ either so I don't buy your assertion that 9E was just sunshine and lollypops but then evil JS came and turned it into a catastrophe. For the last 8 years I have encountered many hundreds of 9E employees and I'm still waiting for one, just one, to say something about 9E that is not negative. The most positive thing 9E people say is "Simply the Best!" and then laugh at the TOTAL CHARLIE FOXTROT that is 9E.

 

[WIPilot]

Not pointing fingers either

With the exception of HR from the VP level up there are no former PCL management types left, they are all former Mesaba. PCL management has been gone for some time. Most of the managers at the director level are former Mesaba also.

All of the problems and the culture you illustrate came with Mesaba management. The 'culture' Prior to Spanjers takeover was completely different. One time in 20+ years pay was one day late. Pay corrections were rare and normally small. They were taken care of within a few days.

Spanjers reduced the staff in almost every department by one third without any plan for the remaining staff to pick up the load. Many departments have been instructed by the VP's (former Mesaba) to simply stop performing support functions for pilots/fa's etc. Menke probably is not aware of that.

The only thing this company has in common with the former PCL is it operates CRJ's. At that point all similarities end. The 'culture' has done a 180. We have been nuked back to where we we were 15 years ago. That happenned under Spanjers and his managment team. It appears to be what Delta wants. One of the reasons Trenary was let go by the board of directors was he wouldn't bend to Delta's requests. Spanjers has.

This company ain't PCL and it ain't Mesaba. We need to start fom scratch with a clean slate about the way we think of this company. I too am very concerned. The operational expertise of this airline has been gutted. Most of the middle management that was very experienced in their areas of expertise and the workhorse of the organization has left management. They refuse to work for the current mangement team. They have been replaced by people that may be nice, but they don't have anywhere near the qualifications or experience to do the jobs they are in. The result is predictable and we are all suffering for it.

Delta is pursueing their business model for regionals brutally. They have taken ground services away from the regional partners and consolidated it under 'regioanl elite' and DGS. Delta directly controls ground service almost everywhere we go. The only thing a regional now supplies is crews, maintence and insurance. Delta owns and supplies the rest. This business is completely different from the one regionals were in 15 years ago. With six different contracters that supply crews Delta will do business with the cheapest supplier. They are not interested in a complete package.

Delta didn't create the Colgan mess but they could have been a 'white knight' and kept PCL out of BK with a lot less effort than they are putting into this now. Why did they push PCL over the brink? What is happening at PCL will have a big impact on ASA's and Republic's current negotiations.

HAHAHA oh my god you ARE serious. I thought this was sarcasm at first...

You seriously think that Trinary had this under control?

or wait..Phil? is that you?

 

[silver02ex]

Pinnacle was really bad before the merger, when CS makes a mistake, I had to call ot email payroll to get fix, which was normal. You would be lucky to get a call back once you do. Every call to CS always turns into an argument. Our contract was pretty much "This is what David White says" what you are seeing now is nothing new. I'm not trying to make excuse for what's going on down in Memphis. But everytme I switch a base or some change in my tax deductions it's always a screw up. DH PNR was usually wrong and took forever to fix. I can go on and on.

 

[suupah]

I think in the long run Delta is only hurting themselves. Running a safe airline that can maintain good aircraft dispatchability and on time performance ( what Delta wants from their connection carriers) costs money. By continually driving down what they are paying connection carriers, Delta is destroying the ability of these carriers to furnish the quality of service they demand. Costs can only be reduced so far before quality is affected. I think we have reached that point.

Nail head hit! another 3407 situation looms.

 

[jetstream]

I know one should be careful what they wish for because you just might get it but I often think I would like to see the board of SkyWest have an epiphany.

The epiphany being the realization that they to know how to run an airline. Then go buy some airplanes in the 120 seat range, establish some hubs in cities where your labor pool actually has a work ethic and the manners to treat customers nicely, (yeah I'm talking about you ghetto ATL), give the legacys the finger then go forth and start taking market share from them in the domestic market.