Why East Pilots are mad

[PHXFLYR]

As a pilot working for another airline, I feel that way about the America West pilots. Every time, I jumpseat on America West, I have to hear their side of the story again. As someone who doesn't care, I want to say STFU, but I don't because I am grateful for a ride. When I ride on the East airplanes, they don't even bring it up and neither do I.

Well , here's a thought. Jumpseat on your own airline...whatcha'think ?


PHXFLYR

 

[reepicheep]

No kidding. What do you expect them to say - "Yeah, we really s@$&*!d over those west pilots but good!"? Duh.

 

[MK82Man]

Please ignore the idiot in the room. It is an absolute waste of time to read his trash. I agree he is an embarrasrement to the profession of aviation.

As an out of seniority AWA furlough, awaiting damages since the East refused to honor the federally arbitrated seniority integration, I'm proud to remind the real pros in the room .... Out West, Integrity still does matter!

 

[T2Bus]

westies are a bunch of ex Mesa punks that never had a problem taking other peoples job. Let's face it. Awa scabs are trying to cash in on a windfall. awa pilots are a disgrace for trying to leapfrog 20 years of service. awa pilots shame on your greed and your view on usair pilots that have already sacrificed so much.

M

I have changed my mind....MCDU, you are not even fit to fly a C-152. I think they are hiring at Wendy's. Go flip some burgers and enjoy reading Flying.

 

[BeCareful!]

I'm proud to remind the real pros in the room .... Out West, Integrity still does matter!

Jesus, when did it start mattering? During the Anset strike?

Integrity matters everywhere. Yeah we all get it. AAA ALPA morons had very little integrity, which showed in the piss-poor conditions they largely created, which, in turn, led to their demise. They were, as much of ALPA sitll is, far more concerned about keeping their cushy FPL jobs than they were about the 93 side letters and the horrific results of their behavior. But, to their credit, I'll bet they never missed a soccer game or a dance recital.

Something you guys haven't seemed to learn is that this holier-than-thou attitude you spew all over the Internet often bites people in the ass. There's really only one side of this story being told here on FlightMisInfo.com. In fact, you boys win the keyboard commando contest hands down. So what? How does it help? I guess it makes you feel better, but here's a news flash: This ain't real life on here.

 

[vetrider]

It aint real life in the usapa bunker either.

 

[becket]

It aint real life in the usapa bunker either.

I'd say REAL life exists in Federal Court Rooms. Some really need to get used to that idea.

 

[Cowboy75]

Something you guys haven't seemed to learn is that this holier-than-thou attitude you spew all over the Internet often bites people in the ass. There's really only one side of this story being told here on FlightMisInfo.com. In fact, you boys win the keyboard commando contest hands down. So what? How does it help? I guess it makes you feel better, but here's a news flash: This ain't real life on here.

Interesting quote from USAPA's supreme leader, Cleary:

Some USAPA members have expressed their concern that our adversaries are winning the ‘communications war’ because they are better at Internet trash talk. The latest strategy appears to be to sap our members’ morale by suggesting that USAPA and its legal team are incapable of winning.

There are two responses to that. The first is found in our recent piece, “Why We Appeal” (posted on the USAPA Web site in the Legal Library; also emailed to all pilots), which outlines in detail our position that the court effectively pre-determined the result of the Addington litigation through its improper exclusion of evidence and faulty jury instructions. As explained in “Why We Appeal,” the very manner in which the Addington plaintiffs prevailed in this first step will provide the basis for a reversal by the Ninth Circuit.

The second response – which I will detail here – is to explain how the Addington plaintiffs have actually experienced an extended losing streak. When viewed in the context of these earlier losses, the recent jury verdict appears to be a Pyrrhic victory for the plaintiffs that actually harms the interests of all pilots – both East and West.

Obviously, West pilots are adversaries for fighting for our rights.

 

[Cowboy75]

It aint real life in the usapa bunker either.

From USAPAWATCH:

Mr. Cleary, you must think we are all fools. You are blaming our predicament on the 1800 former America West pilots who sued to protect themselves from their own bargaining agent. You then had the audacity to suggest that USAPA cannot win the ‘communications war’ as ‘they are better at Internet trash talk.’

Mr. Cleary, let’s get a few things straight:

• You do not need to be at ‘war’ with your communications efforts. Truthful communiqués sans spin phrases such as ‘supremely confident’ would substantially increase the credibility of your updates. You fired the first salvo with your RICO lawsuit against some former America West pilots. The case was dismissed with prejudice in a North Carolina district court in record time. There is no east/west strategy to ‘sap’ anyone. The perception that USAPA and Mr. Seham are incapable of winning is grounded in fact, not some grand smear campaign. The lawsuits filed by the west pilots and former Empire/Shuttle pilots were costly endeavors. Unlike the Association, individual pilots are financially handcuffed when it comes to filing frivolous lawsuits. Your BPR rejected a resolution to create a USAPA sponsored web board. The resolution was soundly defeated at your direction.
• You promoted the concept of USAPA on the promise that it would eliminate the ALPA created logjam. To now claim that anticipated legal action against USAPA’s plan to disenfranchise the west pilots has resurrected the logjam is completely disingenuous. Given time, the east/west MEC’s might have reached an amicable agreement. You can’t blame the west MEC for not moving prior to the vote as there existed no warranty for any concessions made. Once 2700 pilots joined your crusade they gave up the right to negotiate a settlement. Former MEC Chairman Jack Stephan was spot on when he predicted that the fastest path to Nicolau implementation was through the decertification of ALPA.

Despite loss after loss, you somehow believe that USAPA has been victorious in the defense of the indefensible. TheEye absolutely agrees that the losers in this debacle are each and every US Airways pilot who works for gutter wages and under bankruptcy era work rules. The fact that JetBlue E190 FO’s will make more than five year Airbus FO’s is your fault Mr. Cleary. You are the one promoting the de facto parking of contract talks during the estimated 2-3 year appeals process. How dare you blame those of us willing to move on when it is your selfishness delaying our progress.

How ironic that you now feel that ‘the only way forward is with open dialogue and moving forward as one.’ The opportunity for open dialogue ended on that famous van ride to Herndon.

The reality is that the only way to move on is for you to vacate your position and yield the gavel. But as we all know, such a voluntary move is highly unlikely.

Instead, we will continue to reach out and encourage USAPA membership with the singular goal of ending your delusional crusade. It may take time, but we believe that there are enough east/west pilots willing to join together and end the logjam you created.

Mark our words; as membership increases your power will substantially decrease.

 

[johnnyb]

I agree he is an embarrasrement to the profession of aviation.


.. Out West, Integrity still does matter!

Bubba, you are always good for a laugh.

 

[Guppiedriver]

..................................

 

[cactusboy53]

Jesus, when did it start mattering? During the Anset strike?

Integrity matters everywhere. Yeah we all get it. AAA ALPA morons had very little integrity, which showed in the piss-poor conditions they largely created, which, in turn, led to their demise. They were, as much of ALPA still is, far more concerned about keeping their cushy FPL jobs than they were about the 93 side letters and the horrific results of their behavior. But, to their credit, I'll bet they never missed a soccer game or a dance recital.

Something you guys haven't seemed to learn is that this holier-than-thou attitude you spew all over the Internet often bites people in the ass. There's really only one side of this story being told here on FlightMisInfo.com. In fact, you boys win the keyboard commando contest hands down. So what? How does it help? I guess it makes you feel better, but here's a news flash: This ain't real life on here.

Hang on a second there junior, I'll find a feather duster for you to dust that old jewel off for use. There...that's better.

I sat here and typed up a lengthy post to argue each of your points, but I realized that it has all been posted here before. You may have read the posts, but you refuse to believe the information posted. Your responses are emotional and illogical. You and others like you refuse to accept the responsibility to move on in this process, and will spend ANY AMOUNT OF TIME & MONEY to halt this process (or at worst delay, delay, delay).

This is now moving to a new playing field. By failing to cooperate in the merged pilot process, you and others like you will now possibly cause the east pilot group to suffer financially (perhaps in ways that no one can imagine).

There will be books and studies of these actions. The law and court cases here will make legal labor history. The irresponsible allegations made by USAPA toward the federal courts system, the judge, and the jury are some of the most slanderous things that I have ever read.

There was a time that your group could have retreated and saved face. I believe that time has passed. What an absolute pity....

 

[doh]

MCDU, what happens if usapa loses all their appeals? Does usapa have a plan going forward if that happens? What is that plan? I'm a frac jockey now, so I follow this stuff out of morbid curiousity only. But I don't see that they have a plan if they lose.

 

[T2Bus]

MCDU, what happens if usapa loses all their appeals? Does usapa have a plan going forward if that happens? What is that plan? I'm a frac jockey now, so I follow this stuff out of morbid curiousity only. But I don't see that they have a plan if they lose.

DOH....there is no plan.

 

[Cowboy75]

MCDU, what happens if usapa loses all their appeals?

They will lose every appeal. USAPA has unified the West pilot group. You don't attack our pilot group with frivolous lawsuits and get away with it. We'll file legetimate lawsuits and win.

Refer to the Addington case as an example...

 

[doh]

I'm really looking for a response from MCDU. He acts like he has the inside info on usapa, so I want him to explain their plans in case of losing. Come on MCDU, give me the straight skinny.

 

[Scope out RJ's]

I'm really looking for a response from MCDU.

You won't get one from him. He's not a US Airways pilot.
He said so right here:

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?p=848465#post848465

He acts like he has the inside info on usapa, so I want him to explain their plans in case of losing.

His lover is an LCC east pilot. He gets all his info from him. Notice how when things go bad, his man really gives it to him (or should I say, doesn't give it to him):blush::laugh:

 

[T2Bus]

But he did stay at a Hoilday Inn Express.....once, many years ago as a kid with his family and ate free!

 

[captairbusbb]

Jesus, when did it start mattering? During the Anset strike?

Integrity matters everywhere. Yeah we all get it. AAA ALPA morons had very little integrity, which showed in the piss-poor conditions they largely created, which, in turn, led to their demise. They were, as much of ALPA sitll is, far more concerned about keeping their cushy FPL jobs than they were about the 93 side letters and the horrific results of their behavior. But, to their credit, I'll bet they never missed a soccer game or a dance recital.

Something you guys haven't seemed to learn is that this holier-than-thou attitude you spew all over the Internet often bites people in the ass. There's really only one side of this story being told here on FlightMisInfo.com. In fact, you boys win the keyboard commando contest hands down. So what? How does it help? I guess it makes you feel better, but here's a news flash: This ain't real life on here.

Hi again, BeCareful.......Cute little avatar you have.

While your guys were delivering Domino's Pizza at the expense of USairways and by no fault of the westyz, you display a very immature attitude towards the west by inferring that we are the root of your past management's ill informed practices and procedures that led you into BK.

Our guys and girls were gainfully employed, yet you still believe that because of this shotgun wedding that we should pay the price for your sacrifices.......Sorry pal, I would have rather seen Aeroflot painted on the side of AW's aircraft than the cancerous USairways name. Hell, even with the Ruskie's, we would sit down and understand dialogue between such two diversified groups and would come to reason!!! But you USAPA supporters only see one side......That's right, YOUR side.

Get off your high saddle and battle the real enemy......MANAGEMENT. Not the West Pilot group.

Enough said, but once again, it will fall on deaf ears.

 

[PHXFLYR]

...yes it is a cute little avatar. I'm just hoping the kid isn't his.

PHXFLYR