Why does everyone want jetBlue to fail?

[~~~~O~~~~]

The bar is on you, the cowardly poster who throws the word scab around behind a computer keyboard. You say you are an airline veteran, yet you use a word with so much history and hate incorrectly. Whose union accepted rates lower than B6 for airbusses, yours. Whose union leadership plays golf in PHX and reaps huge salaries while thousands of its members wlk the streets or work for us, yours. Whose union is being sued by the TWA pilot group for the screwing they got, yours. Whose union lets Mesa's J. Ornstein walk all over their pilot group with the phrase Greive it, yours. Whose union has almost all of its carriers in bankruptcy, screwing vendors across the nation in one of the worst travesties of bankruptcy poilicies in history, yours. Northwest Airlines has replacement mechanics fixing its aircraft, whose union allows that, yours. Alk pilots have replacement workers on the ramp who poked a hole in an aircraft, did not report it and jeopardized the safety of all aboard, whose union allowed that, yours. At Jetblue we have a content, motivated group who trust and respect our leader for now. We enjoy our workplce, respect our other crewmembers an take pride in our ownership and thats what its all about. If things need to be changed we will take our own counsel not your jealous, petty, ignorant and failed advice. Look in your own house before you come outside and tell me to fix mine. And oh, by the way anyone, can hide behind his wifes skirt and call people names, thats a childs game, be and act like a man and if you want to throw word bombs come out and do it. And by the way get B6's CEO's name right.

How about finding commom ground? Instead of this.....

 

[PHXFLYR]

I don't want them to fail but I would like them to get a union and stop trying to petition the FAA for and exemption to the 8 hour rule.

Here...here!!

PHXFLYR

 

[jbvt]

How about finding commom ground? Instead of this.....

Do me a favor, talk to me about common ground when some one calls you and all the people you work for and respect scabs , OK?

 

[PHXFLYR]

There's been a lot of misinformation written about this flight hour vs. duty hour exemption that is being researched by us. Fact is, the program is till being evaluated by the experts. No decision has been made by any authority whether it will happen or not. The proposal is that JetBlue ONLY will be allowed to exceed the eight hour daily flight time on two legs of DAYLIGHT ( read 6 am to midnight ) flying. If, and that's a BIG IF, an excemption is granted, it will only apply to JetBlue and nobody else. Now, an argument could be made that once the horse is out of the barn, you can't get back in. This may be very true, but it's up to your own representative organizations to fight this battle on their own turf.

To fight this from the outside would be like the JetBlue pilots fighting against more crew bases by other carriers at JFK because it makes it harder for us to find crashpads and commute to work. It's illogical and none of our business. Same thing to fight us about the flight time exemption. It's illogical and none of your business.

As for me, would I do day turns LGB? Problably not, but I would to LAS, SLC, and PHX.

Since when is 6AM to MIDNIGHT considered daylight??? Trying to get that definition changed ,too? No wonder why you guys are loved on this board


PHXFLYR

 

[PHXFLYR]

Stan,

This is your opinion and you are entitled to it, no matter how strongly you feel about it. Along that line, others are entitled to theirs as well, right? And although you personally feel "we" are lowering "your" bar, "we" are of the opinion that "we" have raised "our" bar very high amongst our little airline.

As far as "us" being leaders, well, once again, we have lead "our" little airline quite high in both operation standards and accomplishments. We have "stood up" quite high within our own ranks, thank you very much. Whether you like it or not, JB has far surpassed many hurdles and weathered an extremely tough competative environment despite the lack of support from others. We do what we do for the good of our fellow JB Crewmembers. Call it selfish if you wish, that too, is your choice.

If we were part of a national/fraternal organization (ie ALPA) believe you me, we would be fighting tooth and nail for whatever the majority ruled. However, we are not part of any other league, and face facts, this is business, and as long as we operate above board and honestly, all is fair.

See ya........

Operate above board and honestly.....using all the rules as the currently exist,or by trying to change the ones that aren't to your liking?


PHXFLYR

 

[JB Bus Drvr]

Since when is 6AM to MIDNIGHT considered daylight??? Trying to get that definition changed ,too? No wonder why you guys are loved on this board


PHXFLYR

Let's see. Start work at 6a and get done by 4p, fly 9 hrs. or Start work at noon and get done at 10p, fly 9.5 hrs. Or start work at 2p and get done at midnight. All 10 hrs duty time and two legs of 5 and 4.5 hrs. Now which would you want to do. Start at 6a, fly 8 legs for a total of 7.5 hours and get done at 10p (Typical regional schedule) or fly the other schedule? Besides, again, it's our request, the pilot group, for more efficient schedules.

If you don't like, take your 2.5% and fight it. I'm sure DW will love to spend your money. He did a good job for the all the furloughed guys working for us.

Oh yeah, 32 is an ....., well you get the picture. Beside, he's ignored by most people. If 32 wasn't such a coward, he'd take the short walk from T7 over to T6 carrying his UA flag and confront us one on one about his ramblings. But it's easier to hide behind screen name. However, when it's time to put up or shut up, he's a crying little girl. Fortunately, he's a reject and not reflective of the rest of the really superior folks over at UA.

 

[Boeingman]

Hello Pot......meet Kettle

I was calling a350 because of his "it's all about me" attitude. If you share his views then I would not call you a scab yet. Just a scab in the waiting.

All about me attitude right? So your retired comrades that you voted to decimate must be calling you guys scabs as well right?

You boys and girls have mucho skeletons in your closet to be calling or whining to others about anything. Nice to know arrogance is alive and well at United, at least with a select few. Amazing after the bending over you took over there.

"Thank you sir may I have another......" Is that your motto these days?

 

[Jeff Helgeson]

I have more uniforms in my closet......

Two time loser? It's more like 5 time loser by now. It figures that with all the uniforms I have in my closet I still couldn't match CAL's color.. :laugh:

......let's have a garage sale or better yet, sell them on EBAY like an Ex-Soviet Soldier and have a party!

I know, I know, that is so 1980's!

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Do me a favor, talk to me about common ground when some one calls you and all the people you work for and respect scabs , OK?

Who called you a scab? Some guy with a psuedo name? Get over yourself... Take the high road.... Are you really looking for respect on flightinfo?

 

[PHXFLYR]

Let's see. Start work at 6a and get done by 4p, fly 9 hrs. or Start work at noon and get done at 10p, fly 9.5 hrs. Or start work at 2p and get done at midnight. All 10 hrs duty time and two legs of 5 and 4.5 hrs. Now which would you want to do. Start at 6a, fly 8 legs for a total of 7.5 hours and get done at 10p (Typical regional schedule) or fly the other schedule? Besides, again, it's our request, the pilot group, for more efficient schedules.

If you don't like, take your 2.5% and fight it. .....




And theirin lies the problem. If you guys prevail and get your extension
it WILL filter it's way into the rest of the industry and we WILL have to fight to keep it off of our respective properties. And as a result, we will in all likelyhood have to give up some other contractual gain we got from our last round of negotiations.It's called 'quid pro quo" something for something. That's how negotiations work. But then again,if you had any sort union of union representation ,you would have known that already,wouldn't you?
Oh, by the way thanks for the E190 payrates....Really 'preciate it



PHXFLYR

 

[mrnolmts]

...Start at 6a, fly 8 legs for a total of 7.5 hours and get done at 10p (Typical regional schedule)...

Eh, I don't know about other regionals, but it sure is not typical here at QX. 16 hour days, I mean... 8 leg days? In the Q200 I guess they are somewhat common, however, the Q400 and the RJ average about 3-4 legs a day, I think.
Maybe you weren't trying to be realistic, just making a point?

 

[32LT10]

And get our Ceo's name right, you look like an idiot who knows not for what he speaks .

I did. Needleman

 

[hockeypilot44]

Our wages and benefits are comparable if not better than most airlines flying the A320--- In a few years the 190 will be reasonable as well. It's human nature to want bad things to happen to good people, especially in the airline industry. This same animosity carries to denied jumpseats from legacy carriers too, which is sad, considering no pilot or flight attendant has ever been denied a jumpseat by us. People don't seem to realize however, that the makeup of pilots here at JBLU are 80% or so furlough/previoius legacy experienced guys and gals. We'll keep doing what we do, y'all keep doing what you guys do, and in the end, life will go on...

Your wages are kind of comparable. Give it a few years. Jet Blue has only been around for a few years and is already posting a loss. Wait a few years as the majority of your pilots work their way up the pay scale. Losses will beome greater and greater. After all of the legacy carrier adjustments, Jet Blue might not be competitive anymore. Then again, maybe not. Just remember that as a whole right now, majority of legacy captains are on max pay scale which is more than what most captains at Jet Blue make. Then again maybe fuel prices will drop and Jet Blue will succeed and eventually becocme a legacy carrier. Who knows what will happen.

 

[Networ-King]

For all you blue guys in favor of changing the 8 hour rule, why not just do what every other carrier does and throw an IRO in there? I know the transcons are not international flights, but Im sure you could change that rule alot easier. That way you get more pilots on your list and you can make your "day" transcon turns .


Seriously....

What the FAA needs to do to remedy this whole flight time/duty time BS is just switch over to the CAA rules. Its a beautiful system that limits a pilots day by duty ONLY. For example....

If you show before 6 AM your limited to 9 hours and 45 minutes of duty and you can only have a total of 2 sectors (legs). Should your company choose to make you fly 9 hours and 40 minutes of that then so be it.

If you show between 6AM and 8AM then your limited to 12 hours of duty and you can only have a total of 3 sectors (legs). The flight time really means nothing in the CAA world, its all about the "DUTY LIMITS" over there, this is a daily thing, because I remember something about a 100 hours in a 28 day cycle. Nevertheless.... this is a superb system and I wish the FAA would at least give it some consideration.

Now its been a while since I flew over there and the numbers might be a bit off, but you get the gist of the it. Anyone out there still versed in the EXACT CAA rules and regs that could post the exact numbers?

And FN FAL.....

if you find any mispelled words in my post don't bother just look up this next couple of words for me....that is after you correct the spelling. :laugh: :laugh:

kcuf uoy

 

[JB Bus Drvr]

For all you blue guys in favor of changing the 8 hour rule, why not just do what every other carrier does and throw an IRO in there? I know the transcons are not international flights, but Im sure you could change that rule alot easier. That way you get more pilots on your list and you can make your "day" transcon turns . Not really cost effective especially for an SLC or LAS turn. Besides, who would want to sit in a jumpseat for 8 or 9 hours.


Seriously....

What the FAA needs to do to remedy this whole flight time/duty time BS is just switch over to the CAA rules. Its a beautiful system that limits a pilots day by duty ONLY. For example....

If you show before 6 AM your limited to 9 hours and 45 minutes of duty and you can only have a total of 2 sectors (legs). Should your company choose to make you fly 9 hours and 40 minutes of that then so be it.

If you show between 6AM and 8AM then your limited to 12 hours of duty and you can only have a total of 3 sectors (legs). The flight time really means nothing in the CAA world, its all about the "DUTY LIMITS" over there, this is a daily thing, because I remember something about a 100 hours in a 28 day cycle. Nevertheless.... this is a superb system and I wish the FAA would at least give it some consideration.

Now its been a while since I flew over there and the numbers might be a bit off, but you get the gist of the it. Anyone out there still versed in the EXACT CAA rules and regs that could post the exact numbers?

I really wish we would do this. It's been proven that the CAA rules work. But enter the alphabet groups (ALPA, ATA, etc.) and you've got a fight that will last for years. One carrier at a time, then they can't do anything.

 

[wndshr]

Your wages are kind of comparable. Give it a few years. Jet Blue has only been around for a few years and is already posting a loss. Wait a few years as the majority of your pilots work their way up the pay scale. Losses will beome greater and greater. After all of the legacy carrier adjustments, Jet Blue might not be competitive anymore. Then again, maybe not. Just remember that as a whole right now, majority of legacy captains are on max pay scale which is more than what most captains at Jet Blue make. Then again maybe fuel prices will drop and Jet Blue will succeed and eventually becocme a legacy carrier. Who knows what will happen.

OK...would someone smart please do a comparison of pilot pay versus fuel prices as it relates to CASM!

It doesn't take a genius to figure out that pilot pay is a very SMALL part of CASM...fuel is a very BIG part of CASM...therefore...if fuel is high, ALL airlines are going to be hurting, not just jetBlue! No, UAL, DAL etc etc will not be able to pull a profit with fuel at today's prices...eventually SWA will not be able to operate profitably either with today's fuel prices. So, the real question is...who is going to have the best cost structure to OUTLAST everyone else so that they can eventually raise RASM?

 

[IronCityBlue]

better unionize huh?

Now that B6 is losing tons of dough, the first employee group management comes after are the Pilots. You better unionize before the company just takes what they want, unless you don't care. I mean this sincerely, having been in this business awhile.

HSC

Yeah management came after us big time the other day in a meeting with us. They specifically said that our costs were not the problem, and that we were doing as good a job as we can be doing, to keep it up, and its up to management to fix the other issues to get back in the black.

But you're right, we'd better unionize. We should have done that a year or so ago, during peak profits. That way we could have gotten a "SWA PLUS" contract that management couldn't touch during the bad times.

"We don't want to kill the Blue Goose, we just want to choke it by the neck til it gives us every last egg" said Mr. Bluinsky, JetBlue's top union knee buster in a fit of market based reasoning.

Then maybe we could have stopped management's Mid Hudson subsidiary and kept the E190 on the same list. If only we unionized there wouldn't be a BlueCo.

If only we had unionized, we wouldn't have hundreds of jets flying our colors, brand and passengers outsourced to 5 or 6 lowest bidders while we have hundreds or thousands of our pilots on the street.

Are we invincibile? Nah. But a union does not make sense for us right now. If one day it does, none of the established pilot unions (not including the in house ones) have prooven woerth the 2% pay cut. If it ever comes to unionizing, it will be in house. But for now it hasn't come to that.

Management gets the union they deserve.

 

[jetblue320]

Operate above board and honestly.....using all the rules as the currently exist,or by trying to change the ones that aren't to your liking?


PHXFLYR

We play by the rules as they exist, for now. Who said we were hiding the fact that we are trying to change the rules? Not I......

C yaa

 

[jetblue320]

Now that B6 is losing tons of dough, the first employee group management comes after are the Pilots. You better unionize before the company just takes what they want, unless you don't care. I mean this sincerely, having been in this business awhile.

HSC

Well, I wouldn't consider a 20 million annual loss a "ton" of dough. Some other the other airlines lose close to that in a week or less. It's a bummer regardless of the amount but I seriously doubt if the company is going to ask for give backs or take any back. But, thanks for the advice and heads up!



C yaaaa

 

[Dave Siegel]

Yeah management came after us big time the other day in a meeting with us. They specifically said that our costs were not the problem, and that we were doing as good a job as we can be doing, to keep it up, and its up to management to fix the other issues to get back in the black.

But you're right, we'd better unionize. We should have done that a year or so ago, during peak profits. That way we could have gotten a "SWA PLUS" contract that management couldn't touch during the bad times.

"We don't want to kill the Blue Goose, we just want to choke it by the neck til it gives us every last egg" said Mr. Bluinsky, JetBlue's top union knee buster in a fit of market based reasoning.

Then maybe we could have stopped management's Mid Hudson subsidiary and kept the E190 on the same list. If only we unionized there wouldn't be a BlueCo.

If only we had unionized, we wouldn't have hundreds of jets flying our colors, brand and passengers outsourced to 5 or 6 lowest bidders while we have hundreds or thousands of our pilots on the street.

Are we invincibile? Nah. But a union does not make sense for us right now. If one day it does, none of the established pilot unions (not including the in house ones) have prooven woerth the 2% pay cut. If it ever comes to unionizing, it will be in house. But for now it hasn't come to that.

Management gets the union they deserve.

Hi, it's Dave! It's so encouraging to see that some people like IronCityBlue really take everything that management tells them at face value. You should, as we are truly superior in intellect and vision.

For the record, I'm very upset at the conspiracy to keep my beloved Seahawks from winning that football trophy. It's a crime, and I vow to have the cheaters punished and have the trophy restored to Mr. Holmgren, a man who was the character of a great leader. He is truly a class act.