Why does everyone want jetBlue to fail?

[32LT10]

Stan:

We are leaders.....just not in a way that benefits you......

I still don't get why you guys think we don't have any balls or whatever. We want our company to thrive and grow, not shrink and fail. So we lead by example. We go out of our way to make our company a success.

Do I want to make more money? Of course. But I am not willing to risk my future for a few dollars more now. This is a marathon, not a sprint. I have worked for a union carrier and when the union thing makes sense for JB, then it will make sense to us. But just because it makes sense for us to be union to you doesn't make it a necessity.

A350

Is there picketline somewhere you could cross? Sounds like the words of a.....What is the word I am looking for? Sc...something along those lines

 

[32LT10]

There's been a lot of misinformation written about this flight hour vs. duty hour exemption that is being researched by us. Fact is, the program is till being evaluated by the experts. No decision has been made by any authority whether it will happen or not. The proposal is that JetBlue ONLY will be allowed to exceed the eight hour daily flight time on two legs of DAYLIGHT ( read 6 am to midnight ) flying. If, and that's a BIG IF, an excemption is granted, it will only apply to JetBlue and nobody else. Now, an argument could be made that once the horse is out of the barn, you can't get back in. This may be very true, but it's up to your own representative organizations to fight this battle on their own turf.

To fight this from the outside would be like the JetBlue pilots fighting against more crew bases by other carriers at JFK because it makes it harder for us to find crashpads and commute to work. It's illogical and none of our business. Same thing to fight us about the flight time exemption. It's illogical and none of your business.

As for me, would I do day turns LGB? Problably not, but I would to LAS, SLC, and PHX.

Sure change the rules of the industry just to suit JBLU. That is a smart and "safe" thing to do. You guys crack me up. More days off? Oh how about if another carrier, say Virgin America wants to fly 38 hours in seven days so their pilots can have some sort of benefit. You and I might not see it nor want it but they REALLY want it. Now you bozos have together screwed the entire industry. JFK-LGB-JFK in one duty period is too much flying and if you are successful in getting the change I hope the lawyers are all over you guys when the first incident happens. This is going to be real test of political power and with any luck the additional cost of lobbying the FAA and ATA will further drain the coffers of the JBLU budget. The guys that this will hurt the most are the Regional pilots. Just look at that accident with the J32 in MO recently. Long duty day, lots of legs and it was all "legal".

Another reason to wish JBLU would disappear

 

[A350]

32LT:

Another pilot who doesn't know the meaning of the "scab" word? Now JB pilots are scabs? Is that what you are implying?

You and those of your ilk are running your mouths like a bunch of babies.......

A350

 

[Hair-on-Fire]

Why does everyone want JetBlue to Fail?


Misery loves company.

 

[32LT10]

32LT:

Another pilot who doesn't know the meaning of the "scab" word? Now JB pilots are scabs? Is that what you are implying?

You and those of your ilk are running your mouths like a bunch of babies.......

A350

No the pilot I quoted, YOU by chance, implied he/you were an opportunist and would only do what was good for him/you. That is the modus of scab. Like it or not, sacrificing the group for your own personal gain is what it is all about. The strike just has not happened yet for you to do your offical rite of passage.

baby? Hardly. A hardened veteran that can sniff out the likes of you a mile away.

 

[JB Bus Drvr]

ICB, DTW, Stan: You're right. It is a contradiction in the sense that the action of one carrier could have profound effects on all other carriers. And while the pilot group of the first carrier may want to embrace the changes for them, the other pilot groups may not.

For an example, it wasn't too long ago that Delta would not carry offline pilots in the jumpseat due to a contractual agreement. While off line pilots could jump up and down to protest this, it did no good. Lesson learned was not to let the jumpseat be a bargining chip the other pilot's contract negotiations.

Let's say we get the exemption. Of course other carriers' management may want to do the same. Here's another bargining chip that could be used to gain back loses in previous contracts or even get ahead. Conversely, it may not be such a bad thing after all, if the appropriate constraints are negotiated. Increased productivity, better QOL, more pay, less time away from home. Again, it all falls back on the individual negotiating committee to build that into your contract.

Other areas perceived as threats but had constraints installed were CVRs and FOQA. Pilots didn't want them, but they eventually got there. However, constraints are installed on these so they can't be used against the pilot.

Whether good or bad, the exemption may be granted. Then again, it's up to those pilot groups to act on it individually as it applies to them. Remember, the precedent has already been set in Europe on this and a lot of the European procedures have migrated across the Atlantic already ( BR for fog, SIC Type ratings, etc.).

 

[XBOEINGDRVR]

I worked for a Legacy union carrier, and another LCC based in ATL (with a so called in house union) and JB has been the best job yet. Maybe when there is 2-3K pilots on the list a union might be the answer, but it works fine now without one. My guess is the guys wanting JB to fail are the ones who got turned down or never called. I agree with hair-on fire...misery loves company

 

[jetblue320]

Because if they get the rule changed it affects everyone not just them. It is a selfish act that does nothing to improve the profession. When you work for a profitable airline and do nothing to raise the bar and actually try and lower it in some aspects you get called on it.

Again I don't want them to fail, I want them to thrive. I just want the pilots to stand up for themselves and be leaders in improving things not just followers.

Stan,

This is your opinion and you are entitled to it, no matter how strongly you feel about it. Along that line, others are entitled to theirs as well, right? And although you personally feel "we" are lowering "your" bar, "we" are of the opinion that "we" have raised "our" bar very high amongst our little airline.

As far as "us" being leaders, well, once again, we have lead "our" little airline quite high in both operation standards and accomplishments. We have "stood up" quite high within our own ranks, thank you very much. Whether you like it or not, JB has far surpassed many hurdles and weathered an extremely tough competative environment despite the lack of support from others. We do what we do for the good of our fellow JB Crewmembers. Call it selfish if you wish, that too, is your choice.

If we were part of a national/fraternal organization (ie ALPA) believe you me, we would be fighting tooth and nail for whatever the majority ruled. However, we are not part of any other league, and face facts, this is business, and as long as we operate above board and honestly, all is fair.

See ya........

 

[mrnolmts]

I don't get it? The neagtive BS is just out of hand.

I don't know that "everyone" wants JB to fail. However, I can point to a couple of things that would "stir the pot" a bit, and they have both been mentioned already:
- Exceeding 8 hrs block/day
- 190 pay scale
I don't think either of these two things sit too well with the majority of airline pilots, thus the bashing? Just a guess, tho

 

[Stan]

Stan,

This is your opinion and you are entitled to it, no matter how strongly you feel about it. Along that line, others are entitled to theirs as well, right? And although you personally feel "we" are lowering "your" bar, "we" are of the opinion that "we" have raised "our" bar very high amongst our little airline.

As far as "us" being leaders, well, once again, we have lead "our" little airline quite high in both operation standards and accomplishments. We have "stood up" quite high within our own ranks, thank you very much. Whether you like it or not, JB has far surpassed many hurdles and weathered an extremely tough competative environment despite the lack of support from others. We do what we do for the good of our fellow JB Crewmembers. Call it selfish if you wish, that too, is your choice.

If we were part of a national/fraternal organization (ie ALPA) believe you me, we would be fighting tooth and nail for whatever the majority ruled. However, we are not part of any other league, and face facts, this is business, and as long as we operate above board and honestly, all is fair.

See ya........

I am not talking about JetBlue the airline raising the bar, they have already done an excellent job of putting out a product that people want and will pay for. I am talking about the JetBlue Pilots, who up until recently worked for one of the only profitable airlines out there, stepping up and taking a leadership position in the profession and raising the bar so when and if the industry turns around there is something to shoot for.

 

[Uppercrust]

And screw off Uppercrust.

:bawling: I feel left out if I can't participate with my fellow peers.

 

[Uppercrust]

I worked for a Legacy union carrier, and another LCC based in ATL (with a so called in house union) and JB has been the best job yet. Maybe when there is 2-3K pilots on the list a union might be the answer, but it works fine now without one. My guess is the guys wanting JB to fail are the ones who got turned down or never called. I agree with hair-on fire...misery loves company

God I just laughed reading that one!:nuts:

 

[Uppercrust]

Any advice to someone who has offers at Jetblue and FedEx. Which one and why??? Just curious about the pros and cons!

 

[Benhuntn]

I hope JB makes it. I have a good friend there....I think things will work out for them.

 

[hoover]

Young Minds, Fresh Ideas

I think we would all agree that the current scheduling regulations are all B.S. ALPA has been lobbying to change them for years with little success. Yet all the ALPA diehards are on here defending the same rules that their own union is trying to get changed.

Now, I've no idea if JetBlue will be successful in getting the exemption, or if it will work. It does seem to me that the number of flight hours in a duty period is irrelevant. I would be perfectly happy to fly 8, 9, or 10 hours, as long as the duty period didn't exceed 12 hours, and the rest period was at least 12 hours long.

Bottom line here is that JetBlue is trying something new, rather than rahashing the past. I think it is at least worth the experiment.

 

[buttercup]

Any advice to someone who has offers at Jetblue and FedEx. Which one and why??? Just curious about the pros and cons!

That is a big time no brainer. Go with JBLU only if you live at one of their bases. If you would have to commute with either one Fed Ex is the way to go. If you plan on moving to be based with whatever job you are hired at , still Fedex. JBLU tops off at 140K a year. In the NYC area that is chump change.

 

[Chronic Jetlag]

Reduce duty day from 16 to 13, increase block from 8 to 10. Simple solution!! Let's face, it's duty that really kills you! Who the hell works a 16 hour day anyway?

 

[zkmayo]

Sure change the rules of the industry just to suit JBLU. That is a smart and "safe" thing to do. You guys crack me up. More days off? Oh how about if another carrier, say Virgin America wants to fly 38 hours in seven days so their pilots can have some sort of benefit. You and I might not see it nor want it but they REALLY want it. Now you bozos have together screwed the entire industry. JFK-LGB-JFK in one duty period is too much flying and if you are successful in getting the change I hope the lawyers are all over you guys when the first incident happens. This is going to be real test of political power and with any luck the additional cost of lobbying the FAA and ATA will further drain the coffers of the JBLU budget. The guys that this will hurt the most are the Regional pilots. Just look at that accident with the J32 in MO recently. Long duty day, lots of legs and it was all "legal".

Another reason to wish JBLU would disappear

And what, you, a major airline pilot, care about what a regional pilot's duty day is like? That is laughable in itself. Where have you (and ALPA) been for the last 10 years? I know, negotiating scope contracts that cost many pilots their jobs. Quit defending ALPA national, support all pilots as people (yes even us JB types put our pants on one leg at a time), and most importantly think for yourself.

 

[Dave Siegel]

To fight this from the outside would be like the JetBlue pilots fighting against more crew bases by other carriers at JFK because it makes it harder for us to find crashpads and commute to work. It's illogical and none of our business. Same thing to fight us about the flight time exemption. It's illogical and none of your business.

Hi everyone, it's Dave again. Letting JB Bus Drvr use analogies would be like me letting a donkey drive my car.

Son, I recommend leaving the business decisions to savvy businessmen like me and Frank. If you want to voluntarily seek relief from the FAA regulations, well now I'm definitely on your side. Please lower the bar for the rest of the industry, because in these troubling times, strong management must stay the course, and pilot wages and lack of productivity will always resound strongly in the news. By continuing to drive cars that you cannot afford, you validate the image of the wealthy, overpaid and underutilized airline pilot. This industry is clearly continuing to face rough waters ahead and only steady, well compensated management and continued pilot concessions will enable us to stay the course.

Hey Frank, next time, please send me a Continental Pilot to be my caddy. These Jet Blue pilots and their blue balls were very distracting when I was trying to tee off.

 

[K-Mart]

I hope JB makes it. I have a good friend there....I think things will work out for them.

Good lord folks, reading this thread would make you think JetBlue was in BK and on life support. They lost some money and the new planes have some bugs. Put it to rest. Better yet, take your wife out to dinner or go throw the ball with junior. Have a good night!

 

[JB Bus Drvr]

zkmayo, don't waste your breath or time on 32. He's so far out of it that when he's not typing jiberish on the forum, he's sitting in his rocking chair, looking out the window and saying "there's a choo-choo".

Remeber, you can ignore him by User CP, Misc., Ignore. This thread has been so much better without them.

 

[Beech D45]

I think we would all agree that the current scheduling regulations are all B.S. ALPA has been lobbying to change them for years with little success. Yet all the ALPA diehards are on here defending the same rules that their own union is trying to get changed.

Now, I've no idea if JetBlue will be successful in getting the exemption, or if it will work. It does seem to me that the number of flight hours in a duty period is irrelevant. I would be perfectly happy to fly 8, 9, or 10 hours, as long as the duty period didn't exceed 12 hours, and the rest period was at least 12 hours long.

Bottom line here is that JetBlue is trying something new, rather than rahashing the past. I think it is at least worth the experiment.

The slippery slope here is..if JB is trying to change the flight/duty times, then it is being done from a management perspective and initiative..i.e. for thier benefit. The changes aren't being lobbyed from a pilot perspective. There is no in depth Pilot R&D that SWAPA or the APA could provide.

Once the issue comes to forefront, the organized pilots and thier lobbyist will speak to the issue.... maybe the JB pilots can offer thier opinion then....

 

[jws717]

Our wages and benefits are comparable if not better than most airlines flying the A320--

- In a few years the 190 will be reasonable as wl.

It's human nature to want bad things to happen to good people, especially in the airline industry
..

Exactly why Jet Blue/Air Tran has destroyed this industry;
1, the other airlines have pay simular to jet blue after taking 40% pay cuts to get down to the jet blue level...

2, HAHAHA the 190 rates are pathetic, comair pays better on the crj-700.. lol

3, we do not wish the jet blue people bad will, however they are draging down the bar, look at your work rules they are horrible, regional have better rules.

Dottom line keep drining the blue juice, by the way i just made my way to the lav so it may be brownish/blue.....

 

[DIAMONDDD]

Exactly why Jet Blue/Air Tran has destroyed this industry;
1, the other airlines have pay simular to jet blue after taking 40% pay cuts to get down to the jet blue level...

2, HAHAHA the 190 rates are pathetic, comair pays better on the crj-700.. lol

3, we do not wish the jet blue people bad will, however they are draging down the bar, look at your work rules they are horrible, regional have better rules.

Dottom line keep drining the blue juice, by the way i just made my way to the lav so it may be brownish/blue.....

Are you typing with boxing gloves on?

 

[Frank Lorenzo]

By continuing to drive cars that you cannot afford, you validate the image of the wealthy, overpaid and underutilized airline pilot.

Dave, I couldn't agree more. Today I saw a pilot pulling up to the airport in a new fancy-schmancy Kia, thinking he was all it. These guys need to understand financial responsibility. There are still plenty of 1978 Pintos out there that would fit well into the financial profile of a JBLU pilot. They would also make a nice car for delivering pizzas, to help supplement their pay.

Hey Frank, next time, please send me a Continental Pilot to be my caddy. These Jet Blue pilots and their blue balls were very distracting when I was trying to tee off.

Hey, I've got a new guy for our next round. He's an NWA pilot. I think his name is Duane. I have him picking up my dry cleaning before our next tee time. He had better be on time, or he's gonna get a spankin'!

 

[CKJET]

Why does everyone want JetBlue to Fail?


Misery loves company.

BINGO!!!!!!!!

 

[FurloughedTwice]

I don't want to see JetBlue fail because I have a lot of friends over there but could you please stay out of EWR. Thanks!! LOL

CAL has added hourly service to some of the same markets using 757-300's and I'm sure it's not helping either of us....

It will be an interesting battle.:beer:

 

[whymeworry?]

JBLU is non-union. IMO, the MAIN purpose of a union is to protect pilots from each other. Times at blue are good so the pilots are content with not ever unionizing. But if the $hit ever hits the fan over there, the pilots are going to get a dirty lesson in why a union needs to protect us from each other. Ever fly corporate? Then you know what I'm talking about. The only way we can accomplish raising the bar in this business is by sticking together and fighting for the common good of each other.

JBLU pilots don't want a union... or so I'm told (was told that the company does a pretty good job screening out those with aspirations for a union). You've got a bunch of kool-aid drinkers there, not all pilots at B6 but most... or so it seems.

The second reason pilots hate JB is because they failed to step up to the plate and raise the bar on the 190 pay. The attitude was like, "as long as I don't have to fly it, then set the rates however you want 'em." It is exactly mindset that will prevent the blue pilots from unionizing and the reason I believe they will eventually regret that choice.

But what do I know? I am starting to wonder whether our union is "woerth" much... seeing as how we have D. Woerthless running it.

 

[Dizel8]

(was told that the company does a pretty good job screening out those with aspirations for a union).

I may have forgotten a lot of things, but don't recall any questions concerning unions on the interview, whether pro or con. Maybe Albie can answer that question, based on his feedback. However, untill I am disproved, I guess, I will have to call you full of it

 

[Jeff Helgeson]

Hey, two-time looser.......

I don't want to see JetBlue fail because I have a lot of friends over there but could you please stay out of EWR. Thanks!! LOL

CAL has added hourly service to some of the same markets using 757-300's and I'm sure it's not helping either of us....

It will be an interesting battle.:beer:

.....I mean, Furloughed Twice