Why Can't I Pft Like The Rich Kids Do??

[NookyBooky]

But you know what the bottom line is? You'll have the jet job and they won't.

So if the job you have identified as desirable and attainable is PFT, then you better get to PFT-ing and stop listening to these people bitch about PFT-ing, because that is the only way you are going to get the job. Period.

He may have the job but, if he's paying a grand a month for it, then it won't do him too much good now will it? I know instructing for $12/hr is beaneath so many Yeager wannabees out there, but it produces positive, although meager, income flow and valuble experience. PFT produces negative income, experience equal in value to Microsoft Flight Simulator, and creates a host of other negative externalites. However, what overshadows all those reasons is the simple fact that it makes you look like a spineless little b*tch. I'm sure there are at least a few chief pilots out there that agree.

I don't get it. If you have the bucks then why not buy a plane and take kinky gold digger chicks out on overnight trips to Santa Barbara or something. It sounds like more fun than throwing money at an employer so you can wear a cute uniform and push buttons. Don't be a soggy tampon of a human being and buy f**king job from your employer.

My $.02



NB

 

[SkyBoy1981]

After all I have nothing better to do...and if that isn't that a d*mning indictment as to my quality of life right now, I don't know what is.

To Da Vinci, the original poster: Let me give you a little ray of reality, and I think you already know it but are just looking for some support on this board. Well forget it because it's not going to happen.

PFT is the reality for many operations today. It is not likely to change. It's similar to nuclear weapons, really...once we dropped a bomb the world would never be the same again. Now that PFT is established, the lower-paying jobs will always be PFT.

What this means is very simple: If you want a particular job that is PFT, you must PFT. No one who does not PFT will be hired.

What you are getting from most of these guys is the braying of dinosaurs. They may be young, but their minds are set by the injustice of it all. PFT isn't right! It just ain't right! ...is their attitude.

Well forget it baby. It may not be right but that's the way it is. The guys who don't PFT will keep on flight instructing for another couple years until they can find a freight job. Then they'll do that gig for any number of years...maybe, nowadays, for life...however long or short that may be.

In the end, yes, they'll have 10 times more "interesting experiences" in flight (and you know what I mean) to talk about; they'll have 100 times more weather flying than you, and a zillion times more [fill in the blank].

But you know what the bottom line is? You'll have the jet job and they won't.

Oh, have mercy, I can FEEL the flames of wrath I'm going to get from these people. But what I am telling you is the truth and deep down inside even they know it.

For what it is worth, yes, I wish things were different. I wish things were like they were back in the fifties (can you remember that far? Well let me tell you very few worked for an airline back then but when you did it was a pretty good deal. But I'll tell you the God's truth, there is no airline job I would take these days, what with the conditions these people have to work with.)

However, what floats my boat probably won't float yours, and vice-versa. You think you want to be a regional airline pilot. Good on ya, most people go through life without any definite goal.

So if the job you have identified as desirable and attainable is PFT, then you better get to PFT-ing and stop listening to these people bitch about PFT-ing, because that is the only way you are going to get the job. Period.

What we have here folks is good evidence that you should not post while intoxicated. Period.

 

[onthebeach]

What I'm about to say will only inflame you.

Yet I will say it in spite of that...or, maybe, because of that.

Because if you get p*ssed off enough, maybe you will change your attitude and start to think. Your attitude is wrong. It's against reality. PFT is here, it's going to stay. It's the only way to get into the game. If you want one of these PFT jobs, you are going to have to PFT. No matter how much "experience," etc., you accrue outside of the PFT, you are never going to get the job because you will never get the interview, you won't be eligible for the interview! As another poster on here says, "I can't figger out why some people can't figger that out."

You wrote:
>>I know instructing for $12/hr is beaneath so many Yeager wannabees out there, but it produces positive, although meager, income flow and valuble experience.<<

Well pally, it may produce those things but what it won't produce is any job that is PFT.

I know you won't believe this but guess what, the guys who do the PFT are going to sit in that right seat a long time. They will either learn a lot during that time, or get p*ssed off or disillusioned and quit. If they don't quit, one of these days they're going to get upgraded. That's right, they'll have to pass the same check everybody gets and then they'll be Captains. And all you guys who spend your time railing against PFT will still be CFIs or freight pilots or whatever.

If it's still possible that you're listening, let me emphasize one thing. I personally think PFT is morally wrong...but wrong on the part of the industry, not the pilots who do it. This PFT thing is just one more way unscrupulous management squeezes blood out of turnips, the turnip in this case being the young pilot's desire to fly and get ahead, "at any cost"...literally.

I have no dog in this fight, don't work for an airline now, and frankly in the wretched state that segment of the industry is in, and will be in, for the foreseeable future, I would never work for an airline again even if that were possible.

But not everybody feels that way, of course, in fact for the overwhelming majority of the young pilots that "airline career" is the target...never mind that few of them understand the true state of things nowadays.

What p*sses me off is that most of you guys who are railing against the PFT are cutting off your noses to spite your faces. And, in the process, you are giving a lot of bad information out to young people who might want to walk the airline path.

In conclusion, the rules to the game have changed and you are going to have to play by the new rules or sit on the sidelines. If it's a PFT job you want, you'll have to PFT or find another goal in life.

Best to you.

 

[onthebeach]

>>What we have here folks is good evidence that you should not post while intoxicated. Period.<<


And what you have there is good evidence that respect in this industry is d*mned dear. Just because one earns it, there is no guarantee it will be paid.

 

[SkyBoy1981]

Just because one earns it, there is no guarantee it will be paid.

....and just because one has paid, there is no guarantee they have earned it.

 

[NookyBooky]

That's right, they'll have to pass the same check everybody gets and then they'll be Captains. And all you guys who spend your time railing against PFT will still be CFIs or freight pilots or whatever.

Best to you.

And as CFI's and freight pilots, "we" will be making more money and paying less to service enormous debt than the said Captain.

....and so will the FA's in the back of their shiny new jets.

 

[moxiepilot]

onthebeach-

i can appreciate that you have no stake in the argument, as well as your insight into what you think that PFT is the way to go. But, you said yourself you're not in the industry anymore.

PFT is not the only way to go.

At least this feller has taken the time to ask about both sides of the story and can make his own decision. Let's not disillusion him though to the fact there are multiple ways at 30 to still get into the airlines. One is PFT, one is "more traditional".

Looking at a time & cost base, this kid can still get to where he wants to be within 5 years without having to shell out the major duckets. If he PFT's well then maybe he gets there a little faster but is in a heap of debt; so at what cost do we encourage young pilots to get into the industry?

Let's just objectively give him the options.

As I stated in a previous post, the majority of applicants into regionals come from 91/135 ops as a CFI, banner, cargo operations. There is a small % that come from PFT, and they may be successful too.

I agree with you PFT is probably here to stay, but it is not the only way to get there.

 

[Nindiri]

Onthebeach is absolutely right. If PFT will significantly speed up a pilot's career, then he would be foolish not to do it. As I said earlier, senority is everything, and the sooner you get it, the better. Compared to continued work as a CFI or freight hauler, you will make back the money relatively quicker and enjoy more quality of life. Even if the non-PFTer finally gets a job, you will always be ahead of him. You will be sitting in the left seat making 70-80K or moved on to a major while he is still sitting right seat making first or second year pay.

And stop worrying about what other people think about it. Nobody at the airlines cares whether you PFTed or not.

 

[NYCPilot]

A few years ago PFT was more prevalent than it is now. Continental Express and Gulfstream were most notorious for it. Initially, although the economy was good (pre-9/11), PFT was in full-force around the smaller commuters because they needed pilots. This was due to the large rate of turnover because of the robust economy. Pilots were quickly leaving these regional positions to move on to better equipment. Many pilots were hired with company-paid training and not sticking around for very long. These outfits were tired of shelling out training costs while the pilot quickly gained his experience and moved on. This left the operator to hire more pilots and pay for more training. Not very profitable. So they came up with this PFT thing, where the pilot paid for his training. Kind of an economic hedging. What was also scary, was the fact that they had two pools of applicants. Ones that exceeded PFT minimums and ones that met them. Those that had tons of time (experience), were not hired as often as those with fewer only because it made more economical sense to hire the guy with fewer hours since he would pay for his training. The guy who qualified for company-paid training was not as economically viable for the carrier. Now what this bred, was a climate of opportunity for young guys with very low hours that were dying for the chance to wear a uniform and fly an airliner.

It’s your prerogative to PFT and so just be aware of what goes along with this. Many places will get rid of you when you’ve exhausted your paid hours. Many times, you’re just tuning in radios and not doing much of the flying either. And as you can see, your fellow peers will have a hard time accepting or respecting you. I certainly wouldn’t. But hey, if one is so inclined to jump to the head of the line before you’re really qualified, just to wear a uniform and play pilot for some outfit that is ultimately exploiting you, then go for it. It’s almost like some guy who isn’t good looking or smart (not qualified) going to a hot hooker (the PFT job) just to get laid by a hot chick. Under normal conditions, most hot chicks would not a dude who lacked these qualities.

 

[SkyBoy1981]

Even if the non-PFTer finally gets a job, you will always be ahead of him. You will be sitting in the left seat making 70-80K or moved on to a major while he is still sitting right seat making first or second year pay.

At 20 years old I was type rated and flying a jet making a salary in the mid 30's. I never PFT'ed anything. I worked my arse off, paid for my primary training, then I instructed to build time. I got to know some of the corporate operators on the field and eventually started flying part time corporate while instructing. When a full time job came open, I was first in line for it. PFT is for those who aren't capable of thinking outside of the box and coming up with a plan on their own. You can accomplish anything in life if your wallet is big enough....but is it really an accomplishment?