Why Can't I Pft Like The Rich Kids Do??

[NookyBooky]

That's right, they'll have to pass the same check everybody gets and then they'll be Captains. And all you guys who spend your time railing against PFT will still be CFIs or freight pilots or whatever.

Best to you.

And as CFI's and freight pilots, "we" will be making more money and paying less to service enormous debt than the said Captain.

....and so will the FA's in the back of their shiny new jets.

 

[moxiepilot]

onthebeach-

i can appreciate that you have no stake in the argument, as well as your insight into what you think that PFT is the way to go. But, you said yourself you're not in the industry anymore.

PFT is not the only way to go.

At least this feller has taken the time to ask about both sides of the story and can make his own decision. Let's not disillusion him though to the fact there are multiple ways at 30 to still get into the airlines. One is PFT, one is "more traditional".

Looking at a time & cost base, this kid can still get to where he wants to be within 5 years without having to shell out the major duckets. If he PFT's well then maybe he gets there a little faster but is in a heap of debt; so at what cost do we encourage young pilots to get into the industry?

Let's just objectively give him the options.

As I stated in a previous post, the majority of applicants into regionals come from 91/135 ops as a CFI, banner, cargo operations. There is a small % that come from PFT, and they may be successful too.

I agree with you PFT is probably here to stay, but it is not the only way to get there.

 

[Nindiri]

Onthebeach is absolutely right. If PFT will significantly speed up a pilot's career, then he would be foolish not to do it. As I said earlier, senority is everything, and the sooner you get it, the better. Compared to continued work as a CFI or freight hauler, you will make back the money relatively quicker and enjoy more quality of life. Even if the non-PFTer finally gets a job, you will always be ahead of him. You will be sitting in the left seat making 70-80K or moved on to a major while he is still sitting right seat making first or second year pay.

And stop worrying about what other people think about it. Nobody at the airlines cares whether you PFTed or not.

 

[NYCPilot]

A few years ago PFT was more prevalent than it is now. Continental Express and Gulfstream were most notorious for it. Initially, although the economy was good (pre-9/11), PFT was in full-force around the smaller commuters because they needed pilots. This was due to the large rate of turnover because of the robust economy. Pilots were quickly leaving these regional positions to move on to better equipment. Many pilots were hired with company-paid training and not sticking around for very long. These outfits were tired of shelling out training costs while the pilot quickly gained his experience and moved on. This left the operator to hire more pilots and pay for more training. Not very profitable. So they came up with this PFT thing, where the pilot paid for his training. Kind of an economic hedging. What was also scary, was the fact that they had two pools of applicants. Ones that exceeded PFT minimums and ones that met them. Those that had tons of time (experience), were not hired as often as those with fewer only because it made more economical sense to hire the guy with fewer hours since he would pay for his training. The guy who qualified for company-paid training was not as economically viable for the carrier. Now what this bred, was a climate of opportunity for young guys with very low hours that were dying for the chance to wear a uniform and fly an airliner.

It’s your prerogative to PFT and so just be aware of what goes along with this. Many places will get rid of you when you’ve exhausted your paid hours. Many times, you’re just tuning in radios and not doing much of the flying either. And as you can see, your fellow peers will have a hard time accepting or respecting you. I certainly wouldn’t. But hey, if one is so inclined to jump to the head of the line before you’re really qualified, just to wear a uniform and play pilot for some outfit that is ultimately exploiting you, then go for it. It’s almost like some guy who isn’t good looking or smart (not qualified) going to a hot hooker (the PFT job) just to get laid by a hot chick. Under normal conditions, most hot chicks would not a dude who lacked these qualities.

 

[SkyBoy1981]

Even if the non-PFTer finally gets a job, you will always be ahead of him. You will be sitting in the left seat making 70-80K or moved on to a major while he is still sitting right seat making first or second year pay.

At 20 years old I was type rated and flying a jet making a salary in the mid 30's. I never PFT'ed anything. I worked my arse off, paid for my primary training, then I instructed to build time. I got to know some of the corporate operators on the field and eventually started flying part time corporate while instructing. When a full time job came open, I was first in line for it. PFT is for those who aren't capable of thinking outside of the box and coming up with a plan on their own. You can accomplish anything in life if your wallet is big enough....but is it really an accomplishment?

 

[Nindiri]

Congrats on your good fortune. You are not typical of young pilots starting a career, however. How many 20 year olds have the good luck of being type rated at employer expense?

As I said, PFT is not for everyone. If you can get the job quickly without spending money, that's great. But instructing and flying night freight for years waiting for that perfect non-PFT job is economically and professionally questionable if you have the opportunity to by-pass those years. Given the choice between a feeling of "accomplishment" and the opportunity for more money and QOL at a younger age, I would always choose the latter. Again, nobody in the real world cares about whether you "paid your dues", and a fuzzy feeling of accomplishment doesn't put money in your pockets. imho

 

[mayday1]

As far as I'm concerned, I could care less if someone chose the PFT/PFJ route.. if you have the money and/or are willing to assume the debt, than that's someone's choice. People on this board talk about how it demeans the pilot profession and forces lower wages.

As far as demeaning the profession... well, that is a personal viewpoint. Lower wages (which I think is the real driver behind people's hostility) has little to nothing to do with PFT. It's the throngs of qualified pilots who eagerly line up to take $18k/yr FO slots... basic supply and demand. As long as pilots are taking these jobs, don't ever expect wages to increase, but stop blaming PFT as the element that is breaking the aviation industry.

 

[FN FAL]

Snoop Dog says...

"If the ride is mo fly, then you must buy!"

 

[Da Vinci]

wow, when i read Beach's opinion, i assumed the next 2 pages would be flames. instead i'm surprised and relieved to hear there is another side to this story!!!!!!!!!!!!! Beach...you have huge...tomatos!!!!!!!!!!!! i knew from a couple years of just watching these boards that PFT is considered mostly evil. i'm glad to hear there are voices on both sides. a close friend is starting at gulfstream sept. 7th. $33000. i'm jealous. he's confident he'll be a airline pilot before i get 400 hrs. he's my age and thinks this is the only way to go. so i find myself hating gulfstream a little - because i don't want to empty my savings account...but folks, I HATE IT BECAUSE I JEALOUS he's got the b@lls to spend all that money for just 250hrs!!!!!!!!

question is this...since i'm man enough to admit..and to my buddy's face too...i'm jealous he's paying 33000 for an airline job...is that why most pilots hate it too??? and if that is true, then most hiring departments don't really care?????

and one more question...my buddy will buy 250 hrs of SIC time in a 1900. he has only 260+/_ now. so that means he's a 500hr pilot with only 200 actual pic time. can he EVER upgrade to captain? i'm sorry i'm green about details here and being lazy by asking instead of looking up...but with only 200PIC time, will, let's say ASA ever be able to upgrade him to captain???? if not, then isn't THAT the best reason to NOT PFT?? now if he stays with gulfstream...they would upgrade him, then he can earn pic, right? but they usually don't let their pilots stay so that means he'll never be captain..ever??? the whole PIC SIC upgrade thing is lost to me somehow. i appreciate the help!!

 

[semperfido]

just do it the old fashioned way- work your way up the food chain starting at the bottom

 

[viper548]

He could upgrade to captain after he meets the ATP requirements (all the stuff other than 1500TT) He will need 500pic from somewhere

 

[SkyBoy1981]

question is this...since i'm man enough to admit..and to my buddy's face too...i'm jealous he's paying 33000 for an airline job...is that why most pilots hate it too???

Let me get this straight, you are jealous that he is forking out enough money to go buy himself a nice new car to spend a very limited amount of time in the right seat of a 19 seat turboprop? Hahaha. Thats funny.
I can assure you that most of us, myself included, have no jealousy towards someone for making such a foolish and wasteful decision.

 

[NookyBooky]

Your Questions Sum Up Your Problems

question is this...since i'm man enough to admit..and to my buddy's face too...i'm jealous he's paying 33000 for an airline job...is that why most pilots hate it too??? and if that is true, then most hiring departments don't really care?????

Some many problems with this profession summed up few not so eloquent sentences.

Read what you wrote, think about what you wrote. After that, if you still don't see the foolishness hidden among your impeccable logic, then I have no more to say except that you are a fool.

You've all but admitted to having made up your mind already. I believe everyone has the right to engage in self destructive behavior if they so please. However, this form of behavior has negative effects on everyone else in this industry.

We all have votes in this business. We can vote with our actions and we can vote with are dollars. Your vote is one that reflects on your mentality. For $33,000, you could buy a decent used Pitts; instead you propose to buy a job. You propose to buy a job and force people who have worked hard and done the right thing to share the price. The thought of someone like you buying your way into the industry and someday sharing a cockpit with a retired US Military Aviator, who gained his time while in service of this country rather than with a checkbook, is a disgrace. Yours is a vote of incompetence and it reflects terribly on us all.



NB

 

[Da Vinci]

more like he's paying 33000 to buy a job. gulfstream has him convinced he WILL get a job when he finishes their program.

as for the 250 hrs...i'm not jealous about that. i'm jealous that he might be a airline pilot while i'm yelling, right rudder right rudder....at some student

i'm not trying to flame anyone or be disrepectful. i feel jealousy towards him for having the guts to spend that kind of money...i'm jealous of the quick reward he may get from it. so i asked, is that why so many pilots hate PFT'ers, because they get the good jobs without any of the "right rudder right rudder..." hard work.

your point is not lost to me, however. i'm just trying very hard to get both sides, because i'm very tempted to do both-as in get my CFI and instruct, and then buy time. right now i'm leaning away from buying time, but if it will aid me in reaching my goal, without hurting me in the future, then i feel it is my obligation to investigate it as a viable option.

 

[NookyBooky]

more like he's paying 33000 to buy a job. gulfstream has him convinced he WILL get a job when he finishes their program.

Think on the above sentence good and hard.

as for the 250 hrs...i'm not jealous about that. i'm jealous that he might be a airline pilot while i'm yelling, right rudder right rudder....at some student

We know. You have already established the fact that instructing is beneath you.

i'm not trying to flame anyone or be disrepectful. i feel jealousy towards him for having the guts to spend that kind of money...i'm jealous of the quick reward he may get from it. so i asked, is that why so many pilots hate PFT'ers, because they get the good jobs without any of the "right rudder right rudder..." hard work.

You need help if those are your honest feelings on the matter.

your point is not lost to me, however. i'm just trying very hard to get both sides, because i'm very tempted to do both-as in get my CFI and instruct, and then buy time. right now i'm leaning away from buying time, but if it will aid me in reaching my goal, without hurting me in the future, then i feel it is my obligation to investigate it as a viable option.

"Your point is not lost to me." Apparently it is.

"...without hurting me in the future." We have already established that it will hurt you, and your peers, now and in the future.

I'm done with this thread. You have demonstrated the cognitive abilities of a piece of decomposing granite. Good luck shopping for your "job"-if you haven't purchased it already.



NB