Who in the heck is REPUBLIC!!!

aa73

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Driving me crazy! Who is Republic Airlines, and who are all the airlines associated with them? So far I've heard Chautaqua, Shuttle America, Mid Atlantic, anybody else? And why doesn't it say "Operated by Republic Airlines" on the jets if that's the airline who owns them? D they operate as United express, or USAir express? And finally, where are they based?

thanks,
73
 

BoilerUP

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Republic Airways Holdings owns Chautauqua and Shuttle America. They are in the process of getting an operating certificate for Republic Airlines.

CHQ will operate the 145 family of aircraft, while I think Republic will operate E170s for Delta and Shuttle will phase out the Saabs and operate E170s and possibly E190s for United and US Airways. I could be wrong however, as this seems to change weekly. The three-airlines-instead-of-one concept is primarily a way to get around scope, with all pilots flying under the CHQ master seniority list after the S5 integration.

If I'm wrong, I'm sure somebody will correct me. Clear as mud?
 

aa73

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BoilerUP said:
Republic Airways Holdings owns Chautauqua and Shuttle America. They are in the process of getting an operating certificate for Republic Airlines.

CHQ will operate the 145 family of aircraft, while I think Republic will operate E170s for Delta and Shuttle will phase out the Saabs and operate E170s and possibly E190s for United and US Airways. I could be wrong however, as this seems to change weekly. The three-airlines-instead-of-one concept is primarily a way to get around scope, with all pilots flying under the CHQ master seniority list after the S5 integration.

If I'm wrong, I'm sure somebody will correct me. Clear as mud?
OK, so Republic Airlines will be yet another airline flying under Republic Airways?

Who is operating the United E170s right now? I thought it was CHQ and SA.
Who is operating the USAir E170s? Isn't that MDA?

What a mess.
 

SlapShot

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My understanding is that Shuttle America will operate the 170s for United and Delta. The 170s that are flying with “Chautauqua” painted on the side will be slowly coming to the Shuttle America certificate. I believe at a rate of about 3 a month.

When (and I guess if) the Mid Atlantic airplanes come over to Republic Airways Holdings, they will go to the Republic certificate. The reason for this is because there is a 70-seat scope clause in the Delta contract and the MDA airplanes have (I believe) 72 seats. Therefore IF 190s come to RAH, they will go to the Republic certificate.
 

BoilerUP

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aa73 said:
OK, so Republic Airlines will be yet another airline flying under Republic Airways?
Essentially, yes. Republic Airways is the holding company that owns CHQ, Shuttle America and Republic Airlines.

Who is operating the United E170s right now? I thought it was CHQ and SA.
That is correct, and they are transferring airplanes from CHQ to Shuttle certificate as fast as they can get pilots trained so they don't have to keep paying the large fine for violating APA's scope clause.

Who is operating the USAir E170s? Isn't that MDA?
Yes, MidAtlantic is currently operating the "Embraer 170 division of US Airways". RAH is buying the Embraer assets (airplanes, sim, doors trainer, etc) from Airways and will operate the E170s and possibly later E190s for Airways as Shuttle America. This asset sell is the cause of all the static on this board about the screwing MDA pilots are again getting from U management, along with the employment offer by RAH.[/quote]

What a mess.
Yeah, no joke...
 

BoilerUP

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I see SlapShot has responded, so he might know more about the Republic/Shuttle certificate mess than I do. Its all basically an operating certificate shell game to get around scope.
 

Captain Overs

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aa73 said:
Driving me crazy! Who is Republic Airlines, and who are all the airlines associated with them? So far I've heard Chautaqua, Shuttle America, Mid Atlantic, anybody else? And why doesn't it say "Operated by Republic Airlines" on the jets if that's the airline who owns them? D they operate as United express, or USAir express? And finally, where are they based?

thanks,
73
For the same reason it doesn't say "Operated by AMR" on American planes.
 

P38JLightning

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seperate certificate trick myth, again...

SlapShot said:
My understanding is that Shuttle America will operate the 170s for United and Delta. The 170s that are flying with “Chautauqua” painted on the side will be slowly coming to the Shuttle America certificate. I believe at a rate of about 3 a month.

When (and I guess if) the Mid Atlantic airplanes come over to Republic Airways Holdings, they will go to the Republic certificate. The reason for this is because there is a 70-seat scope clause in the Delta contract and the MDA airplanes have (I believe) 72 seats. Therefore IF 190s come to RAH, they will go to the Republic certificate.

Not exactly. The Delta pilots were smart enough, long ago, to prevent that kind of scope busting by writing in their scope clauses language that prevents entire holding companies from doing the kind of restricted flying that's against the Delta pilot scope (as long as they are a Delta partner that is). Their language is not limited simply to certificates like many other majors. The Delta pilots had to give seperate and specific permission for the Continental, Northwest, Alaska, Horizon and even American Eagle limited codeshare agreements, because each of those airlines operate planes with greater than 70 seats, even if some only do so on other certificates (e.g. Eagle is owned by AA)

In the most recent concession (to avoid immedtate bankruptsy, obviouslly) the Delta pilots loosened their scope a bit, getting rid of the 70 seat max language in all cases. The new language says you can only operate 70 installed seats for Delta but you can fly I think 90 or 98 or something under 100 for sure, seats on your certificate or any other certificate for that matter, for other airlines, without having to go to the Delta pilots for permission. This opened the door for mesa, which was previouslly restricted because they have 90 seaters. It never mattered if they were flown on the Mesa or the Freedom certificate.

But there is still a limit of what can be flown, and I don't think the E190 is permitted. In any case, what is permitted and what is restricted has nothing to do with what certificate you put it on. If its greater than that majic number (98 or something close, certified seat capacity) your entire portfolio of companies would instantly be in noncompliance with Delta pilot scope. While some people may laugh at that thought, keep in mind Delta pilot scope has remained airtight (with the exception of when the pilots choose to loosen it, again and again and again) throughout this whole 9/11 and potential Ch. 11 process.

I haven't looked at the language since the time they signed it, so maybe someone could post it for our catfighting pleasure. But I'm pretty sure the E190 and definately the E195 are prohibited, as well as anything larger (737, etc) and regardless of what the actual number limit is, it can not be exceeded and the infamous "seperate certificate trick" will provide no relief in going beyond it without Delta pilot premission.
 
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stb

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P38JLightning said:
Not exactly. The Delta pilots were smart enough, long ago, .
Thats Funny, they are the one that put us in this rj situation from the get go.
Back in the early 90's, Delta pilots voted to loosen restriction on Scope.
The rest of the industry wanted rj to be flown by their mainline.
 

P38JLightning

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right on

stb said:
Thats Funny, they are the one that put us in this rj situation from the get go.
Back in the early 90's, Delta pilots voted to loosen restriction on Scope.
The rest of the industry wanted rj to be flown by their mainline.
I didn't mean to imply that the decisions the Delta pilots made on scope over the last dozen or so years were smart. Far from it. But it seems like the one thing they got right was realizing that focusing on restricting one particular certificate would do nothing to stop a company from adding another certificate to get around whatever restriction you were trying to enforce in the first place.

Not that they were any more enlightened than the other "not my problem" major pilot groups out there; I guess they just had a better lawyer.
 

BlackPilot628

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You guys pretty much had it right.

Republic Airways Holdings is our parent company. Owning the following below.

Chautauqua Airlines - E145/140/135's For all of the airlines
Republic Airlines - E170 for Us Airways (E190 possible)
Shuttle America - E170 for United and Delta. ( The SF34's will slowly be phased out)
 

FreedomAList

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BlackPilot628 said:
You guys pretty much had it right.

Republic Airways Holdings is our parent company. Owning the following below.

Chautauqua Airlines - E145/140/135's For all of the airlines
Republic Airlines - E170 for Us Airways (E190 possible)
Shuttle America - E170 for United and Delta. ( The SF34's will slowly be phased out)
E190's for US Airway's highly likely, I'll bet. Expect 'em to take over any lingering 737 routes.

Especially with Mesa expected to lose the 56 jets it's currently operating for US Airways.
 

jetexas

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Good Question aa73. Still up in the air is who/what/when/where will fly 170/190 series jets at AMR. Perhaps Republic? Whoever mentioned "Corporate Shell Games" I think is the winner. With so many companies flying feed for everyone else, it is a huge mess. All the airlines are intertwined to some degree, at least as far as feed goes. I think the only people able to sort out this mess and might know what's "really" going on may be big shot corporate caddies in Dallas, Chicago or Atlanta country clubs.
 

bailout

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OK, what are all their the callsigns?

And who is ShuttleCraft?
 

Cardinal

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While we're asking questions...From the CHQ CBA:
Line Guarantee
When the Company achieves a ninety-eight point five percent (98.5%)
completion factor for the month, a pilot who has been available for duty
during the entire month will receive the greater of one hundred percent
(100%) of his final bid award line value or his actual flight time, adjusted
for trip trades or drops.
Is that 98.5% completion factor consistently achieved? Or are y'all left hanging in the breeze on most months?. I mean all it takes is one healthy snowstorm and all that penalty box time would evaporate into thin air.
 

AV8700

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P38JLightning said:
I didn't mean to imply that the decisions the Delta pilots made on scope over the last dozen or so years were smart. Far from it. But it seems like the one thing they got right was realizing that focusing on restricting one particular certificate would do nothing to stop a company from adding another certificate to get around whatever restriction you were trying to enforce in the first place.

Not that they were any more enlightened than the other "not my problem" major pilot groups out there; I guess they just had a better lawyer.
I maybe wrong here but I think the Delta pilots gave this up. As long as its not ASA or Comair its OK.
 

aewanabe

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Cardinal said:
While we're asking questions...From the CHQ CBA:

Is that 98.5% completion factor consistently achieved? Or are y'all left hanging in the breeze on most months?. I mean all it takes is one healthy snowstorm and all that penalty box time would evaporate into thin air.
Yeah, we make the 98.5 pretty consistently. Just to clarify though, we get block or better per leg, so all that penalty box time can't be wasted. Where the completion factor helps is our sh!tty cancellation pay (we have next to none). Good news is with the fee-per-departure scam, the company almost never cancels a leg unless it's completely unsalvageable ;))
 

aa73

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aewanabe said:
Yeah, we make the 98.5 pretty consistently. Just to clarify though, we get block or better per leg, so all that penalty box time can't be wasted. Where the completion factor helps is our sh!tty cancellation pay (we have next to none). Good news is with the fee-per-departure scam, the company almost never cancels a leg unless it's completely unsalvageable ;))
Thanks for all the replies everyone. This is starting to sound like a replay of the 1980s when Texas Air Corporation owned about 100 different airlines. Corporate shell game is right.
 
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