Who has left ASA for SkyWest?

[Thermaldog]

Is Alpa worth 2%

What do you think?

 

[ASApuppy]

Think of it as insurance. What percentage of your car's value do you send in to your auto insurance each month? I know it's required by law, but I bet not too many would go without it if they didn't need to. ALPA is the same way. I've had my tit in the FAA ringer and ALPA handled everything. What is piece of mind worth to you? BTW, that 2% is detuctable.

 

[John Pennekamp]

After ASA negotiations end, and if the ALPA drive fails, the Skywest pilots WILL take a large pay cut. Then they may feel differently about that 2%.

 

[rightseatjocky]

John,
You really think they will take a pay cut? I am not disagreeing with you, I am just wondering where you think they would take a pay cut. For their union drive, I do know that in Chicago (according to a skywest captain), it is going very strong there.

 

[John Pennekamp]

John,
You really think they will take a pay cut? I am not disagreeing with you, I am just wondering where you think they would take a pay cut. For their union drive, I do know that in Chicago (according to a skywest captain), it is going very strong there.

Yes, I do. (I don't understand your second question, "where" they would take a pay cut). They will take a pay cut if the ALPA drive fails.

I'm glad the drive is going well in ORD. However, that's a junior base, and what they tell the organizers face to face doesn't indicate how they'll vote. I understand it isn't so strong in SLC, DEN, or California.

The last union drive got a 49% vote. That's about 1200 pilots voting yes. That's a lot of people running around championing the union. If you asked 1000 of those 1200, they'd have been pro union, and it woud have seemed like "everybody" was in favor. The only poll that really counts is the one on election day.

And I believe it will fail by a slim margin again, because the Skywest pilots are buying what management is selling. They're looking at ASA and thinking the union will only hurt them. They just don't see the big picture.

 

[Spicepilots]

.....

 

[Willy21]

So what will happen when SkyWest is one of the few regionals left? Who is going to be there to prop up your QOL and payrates? Those are some of the things you need to think about.

One of the things that I wouldn't like about being a SkyWest pilot is you are being used to break another pilot group. A lot of your newhires are making comments to ASA pilots about how they are going to take all of the 70's and anything else that SkyWest Inc will get. That doesn't say to much about your pilot group in my opinion.

I have said all along that we need to work together, SkyWest and ASA pilots. What are you doing to make that happen?

 

[John Pennekamp]

I find it interesting that so many people claim that as soon as ASA's negotiations fail that SkyWest will have paycuts imposed.

Clearly, reading & comprehension isn't a prerequisite for Skywest employment. Here's what I wctially said:

They will take a pay cut if the ALPA drive fails.

How then do you explain why we didn't have a paycut imposed PRE-owning ASA?

The threat of a union drive. Next question...

And quit whining about our 70-for-50 seat rates and the 900. We get paid more than many regionals, less than some... on an hourly basis. Many, many SkyWesters have argued that our overall compensation and QOL overrides that fact.

Whining? More like making fun of y'all for bring patsys and sellouts. SJS is alive and well over there with two year upgrades, isn't it? Let's see, Comair is in bankruptcy and they still make more than you. In fact, their current bankruptcy concessionary negotiations are STILL shooting above your pay rates. What's your excuse? And why would "Many, many SkyWesters" arguing about your compensation being better mean a hill of beans? If they're happy at Skywest, why wouldn't they? They're getting fat on the milk coming from the big titty in SGU.

I have yet to meet an ALPA supporter here who has a convincing argument for why we should vote it on property.

Ok, that's not much of an argument, it just illustrates that you must not get out much. Exactly how many ALPA supporters have you spoken to? 10, 20, 50? all 1200?

The pay issue doesn't fly; you guys have been waiting longer for a contract than we have for a raise. The "handshake" agreement argument? I have seen almost as many complaints on this board about ASA's management violating the contract than complaints from people who don't work for us about our blended jet rate. Legal for medical issues and terminations and such?

What makes you think you won't be in the same boat if this ALPA drive fails and ALPA gives up on Skywest (which will surely happen if it fails again). Without the threat of unionization, wou won't be seeing raises for quite some time. Do you really believe Jerry wants to take care of you out of the goodness of his heart? He's a very good businessman, and business is about making money for the shareholders. Period.

And it's comical that you're basing your opinion of ASA pilots from what you read on this 100% factual board that has an accurate cross section of our pilot group *TIC*.

Okay, maybe... but I find it ironic that the ALPA pen and sticker-toters are often the least compliant with dress code and standards and show times. More than one member of the ALPA drive has been fired and re-hired by SkyWest.

An insult! ASA pilots are unprofessional?!!!

And that's ALPA's fault? What a juvenile cheap shot. If that's true, then why aren't Delta pilots the same way? Ever see a Delta pilot without his hat? They look like Russian submarine captains in the concourse!

You don't know squat about ASA pilots until you've worked here. Your opinion is not valid. If I believed everything about Skywest pilots I read here, I'd believe you're all a bunch of crybaby, holier than thou, management hack wannabees who want to ride the coat tails of every airline out there. but I know that's not true of all Skywest pilots.

The drive isn't going that well west of ORD. Maybe ALPA should take a couple more million from it's strike contingency fund to pay for recruitment (like it claimed it has in the last piece of unsolicited propaganda it sent me). Sorry, I just want to show up and do my job, until you can show me that life is vastly superior at your airline with ALPA, I'll keep my 2%.

You're right that the drive isn't going well out west. Like I said, I doube it will pass.

You have a sucky attitude. Look ,we all know you're gonna vote no, so just shut your pie hole and do it. If you don't want "unsolicited propaganda" then go online and take your name off the list, crybaby. Enjoy your 2% and invest it well. I predict you'll take a 5%-10% pay cut when the ALPA drive fails.

 

[Spicepilots]

So what will happen when SkyWest is one of the few regionals left? Who is going to be there to prop up your QOL and payrates? Those are some of the things you need to think about.

One of the things that I wouldn't like about being a SkyWest pilot is you are being used to break another pilot group. A lot of your newhires are making comments to ASA pilots about how they are going to take all of the 70's and anything else that SkyWest Inc will get. That doesn't say to much about your pilot group in my opinion.

I have said all along that we need to work together, SkyWest and ASA pilots. What are you doing to make that happen?

I figured I was going to get flamed eventually for what I said, so I removed it, but I will respond to your comments. I can't speak for what some ill-bred moron allegedly spouts off inappropriately (hey, that applies to this board sometimes, too!), but I agree that it's wrong for any of our pilots to rejoice in your or any other airline's situation... I'd be surprised if this is even happening or happening on more than an isolated basis. But regardless, it's wrong. That being said, I don't agree with your allegation that we are being used to break your pilot group. Your contract dispute started way before SkyWest acquired you. Your profitability comes from the contract negotiated with Delta, not from how well your airline is run or is performing, just like ours does. You have a single mainline codeshare, we spread our risk out by having two... and neither of them are exactly raking in the dough. Therefore, there is always a certain amount of risk involved in asking for a raise. JA has always told our company that our success is based upon the goodwill of our mainline partners and what we can provide them. Why your company doesn't give you a raise? Since I only get to see snippets of what's going on over there amid all the sniping, I can't tell what the company's real stance is and where your union stands. As far as I can tell, the biggest issue seems to be how big a raise you get, if I'm wrong, you guys need to do some damage control, because you aren't being perceived well from the outside. Maybe that doesn't matter to you, but if you're asking us to "help you out" and vote in a union, it sure does matter to us. And btw, United constantly shifts our flying back and forth with Mesa. As far as I know, we're not getting into a playground dispute with them over "our" flying.

 

[Spicepilots]

Okay, John, we continue to disagree, but since you're going to slam my reading comprehension, what I actually said about ALPA drive members being unprofessional and being fired and rehired actually pertains to those AT SkyWest, who were EMPLOYED at SkyWest, then fired, then hired again. I never said "ALPA drive members fired at ASA then hired by SkyWest." You're right, I don't know much about ASA, but you don't exactly put a good face on it either. I think you said "you have a sucky attitude". Ditto, buddy.

 

[John Pennekamp]

I figured I was going to get flamed eventually for what I said, so I removed it, but I will respond to your comments.

Too late. Be a man and stand behind your statements.

I can't speak for what some ill-bred moron allegedly spouts off inappropriately (hey, that applies to this board sometimes, too!), but I agree that it's wrong for any of our pilots to rejoice in your or any other airline's situation... I'd be surprised if this is even happening or happening on more than an isolated basis. But regardless, it's wrong.

My, my you really are an eliteist. "Ill-bred"?

I have news. Many of your pilots are rejoicing in our situation. And yes, it IS wrong.

That being said, I don't agree with your allegation that we are being used to break your pilot group. Your contract dispute started way before SkyWest acquired you. Your profitability comes from the contract negotiated with Delta, not from how well your airline is run or is performing, just like ours does. You have a single mainline codeshare, we spread our risk out by having two... and neither of them are exactly raking in the dough. Therefore, there is always a certain amount of risk involved in asking for a raise.

You are being used to break us. Not a negotiating session has gone by when our negotiatiors haven't been reminded of how we stack up to you.

Our problems did begin before Skywest Inc. (not Skywest Airline, BTW) bought us. And even then Delta was cramming it down our throats how much less you and the other DCIs (except Comair) made compared to us, with your one rate.

You are right that our profits come from the agreement, and not performance. ASA's performance is in last place in every category except profits! The point is that it doesn't matter where the profits come from, the workers provide those profits and deserve a fair share. The union aims to ensure that happens. Who's fighting for you SAPA? The ones paid by management?

JA has always told our company that our success is based upon the goodwill of our mainline partners and what we can provide them.

Here we go, the "Jerry loves us and always tells us the truth" argument. Look around the industry and tell me that's true.

Why your company doesn't give you a raise? Since I only get to see snippets of what's going on over there amid all the sniping, I can't tell what the company's real stance is and where your union stands. As far as I can tell, the biggest issue seems to be how big a raise you get, if I'm wrong, you guys need to do some damage control, because you aren't being perceived well from the outside. Maybe that doesn't matter to you, but if you're asking us to "help you out" and vote in a union, it sure does matter to us. And btw, United constantly shifts our flying back and forth with Mesa. As far as I know, we're not getting into a playground dispute with them over "our" flying.

Why? BECAUSE PEOPLE LIKE YOU DOING OUR JOB FOR LESS MONEY (70 SEATER) GIVE THEM NO INCENTIVE TO PAY US MORE! Duh!

Aren't percieved well? Oooh another ASA slam. Keep' em coming! You know, we're really worried what the skywest nazis think about us.

We did not and will not ask for your help, because you will backstab us as soon as you finish. Vote no. You only screw yourselves. But be aware, ALPA's merger policy and the RLA make it pretty certain that we will get DOH when Jerry finally merges us. You do know our average -50 captain has 8 years of seniority, right?

If you have no union, you'll get steamrolled. Especially since the ASA pilots have a perception that you're a bunch of elitest jerks. Keep it up.

 

[Willy21]

I am not asking you to do anything. I am just pointing out the fact that ASA mgmt has not even put your work rules and payrates on the table. Why do you think that is? Maybe so they can turn around and come after the SkyWest pilots. Maybe, maybe not. You guys have a good thing going right now, but if history holds true the top dog is always the next to get shot down.

As for the newhires, yes it does happen. This past week I was at FSI in SLC, for recurrent with the great Tomct, and there were some comments made. I have also sat on your jumpseat to DFW, thanks for the ride, and one of your f/o's told me how great it was going to be to fly in the Caribbean this winter. He also stated he didn't care how he got his upgrade as long as he got it.

You guys can do what you want vote ALPA in or not I don't care. I just hope you do something for yourself instead of being at the mercy of the might Jerry. Given the chance he will let his henchman Ron take you to school.

 

[scarlet]

ALPA NATIONAL will spend alot of money if ALPA fails at skywest, and they take our airplanes and our flights, that will generate a SCAB list. So for career move for the skywest pilots might just be the left seat at SKywest,,,and thats all folks !!!!

 

[Spicepilots]

You guys are right, I'm sorry. The thing is, I started out being sympathetic to your cause. I guess a year of being called a scab and a bottom feeder and god knows what else will eventually turn you. I may be an elitist jerk, but I've never told any of the ASA pilots I've run into that I look forward to flying their planes or their routes. Like I said, I can't speak for them. And John, you take everything too personally. Ill-bred moron referred mostly to said SkyWest pilots, not to you specifically or to ASA pilots in general. Look, I've been screwed by scheduling, I don't actually believe everything managment says... but at the end of the day, I understand economics, and in todays day and age, if a company doesn't want to give, a compromise is a hard thing to force, much less getting awarded your full desires. It sucks to be you guys, yeah, maybe our turn might be next, who knows. But I'm tired of watching the same five guys address the situation at our company with absolute certainty. Hence my rant about the union drive over here. I'll own it, and I'll own every conversation I've had with the guys who leave ALPA materials in the cockpit. I just removed it because I thought better of provolking the firestorm, and as usual, we've hijacked some poor guy's thread and turned it into SkyWest vs. ASA.

 

[amcnd]

SkyWest has hired allot of TSA/MESABA pilots lately that are not to happy with ALPA. I think the next vote if there is one would be low 20-25% "just my guess".

 

[USCtrojan]

Jerry is waiting for the Union Drive to come to fruition. Right before it happens count on Jerry A. to offer a 70/90 rate commensurate with ASA's. They will get a "talked" about raise. Like Zoltar. What happens then is anyones guess.

Trojan

 

[Spicepilots]

ALPA NATIONAL will spend alot of money if ALPA fails at skywest, and they take our airplanes and our flights, that will generate a SCAB list. So for career move for the skywest pilots might just be the left seat at SKywest,,,and thats all folks !!!!

sigh... If this were true, wouldn't ALPA national have taken care of Freedom and Go-Jets?

 

[bender]

To answer the title, there were 3 ASA/Comair pilots at my interview and 2 more ASA guys the day before.

 

[scott hall]

I got my app in. No phone call yet.

 

[John Pennekamp]

ALPA NATIONAL will spend alot of money if ALPA fails at skywest, and they take our airplanes and our flights, that will generate a SCAB list. So for career move for the skywest pilots might just be the left seat at SKywest,,,and thats all folks !!!!

And you're as bad as them. Quit dropping the "s-bomb" until you understand what it means, junior.

The only way the Skywest pilots would be scabs is if we struck, and they flew our routes or airplanes that existed at the time of the strike.

 

[Dave Benjamin]

ALPA NATIONAL will spend alot of money if ALPA fails at skywest, and they take our airplanes and our flights, that will generate a SCAB list. So for career move for the skywest pilots might just be the left seat at SKywest,,,and thats all folks !!!!

There's only response to total idiots like this guy

This message is hidden because scarlet is on your ignore list.

Being non-union does not equate to being a scab. You need to talk to some of your grown up peers so you can avoid posts that embarass your colleagues.​

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[Mercyful Fate]

Maybe Skywest should just give ASA back to Delta...that would be a good thing right? Since you guys seem to think Skywest is such an evil company now. Im sure you will get exactly what you want from Delta.

 

[SkyNation]

Being non-union does not equate to being a scab.
​

Good point. Nor does it equate to you being stupid, uninformed, too new to know any better, or naive.

Spicepilots,

just relax. don't you know that pilots at other airlines know how things at SkyWest work better than we do? Don't you know that they have a magic ALPA pin that they rub and it tells them the future? Don't you know that we have had it good for 30 plus years but now we're screwed?

flame on boys, flame on........

 

[rickair7777]

OK, so if I vote in alpa, how would the ASA & SKW negotiations be conducted? As a single pilot group vs. management? Or in a three-way round-table?

Also perhaps more importantly...I like SKW because of LOCATION, LOCATION, LOCATION. I can promise you that I would never, ever bid anything east of denver, for any amount of money, and a lot of guys here share my attitude. So with that being said, how would the seniority integration work?

I would need absolute assurance of an equitable list merger plan. DOH is not an option, It would have to be one-for-one thing kind of thing with some sort of fences. My personal life cannot deal with relocation to ATL.

Without ironclad assurances as to my domicile (and upgrade in that domicile) ALPA = DIVORCE!

So what is the plan on that, and how will it be assured?

 

[SSDD]

ASA has been a $hitty company with $********************ty management for most of its existence, but somehow they to blame it all on the Skywest pilots. I'm through apologizing or trying to understand ASA's problems. They have no clue as to the pilot/management dynamics at Skywest, all they know is their own crappy, lying management.

Its hard to unite and cooperate when you have idiots harping on you all the time. I will not fly your struck work, but the loss of airplanes and routes is on you.

 

[sweptback]

Also perhaps more importantly...I like SKW because of LOCATION, LOCATION, LOCATION. I can promise you that I would never, ever bid anything east of denver, for any amount of money, and a lot of guys here share my attitude. So with that being said, how would the seniority integration work?

I would need absolute assurance of an equitable list merger plan. DOH is not an option, It would have to be one-for-one thing kind of thing with some sort of fences. My personal life cannot deal with relocation to ATL.

Real easy. DOH + fences to prevent anybody from being displaced. This is a pretty common provision in a merger. Then in 2 or 3 years the fences come down and any pilot can bid any vacancy that their senority can hold. Nobody would lose their seat or current base, the only thing that would be affected would be future positions.

People on this board seem to have some sort of phobia that DOH will mean they'd lose their base and get displaced to ATL. That would not be a fair merger at all! But DOH needs to be a condition of the merger, otherwise the ASA pilots will get hosed even more then they're currently being hosed.

 

[Arrow11]

Real easy. DOH + fences to prevent anybody from being displaced. This is a pretty common provision in a merger. Then in 2 or 3 years the fences come down and any pilot can bid any vacancy that their senority can hold. Nobody would lose their seat or current base, the only thing that would be affected would be future positions.

People on this board seem to have some sort of phobia that DOH will mean they'd lose their base and get displaced to ATL. That would not be a fair merger at all! But DOH needs to be a condition of the merger, otherwise the ASA pilots will get hosed even more then they're currently being hosed.

So, instead of getting displaced now, a large number of SkyWest pilots would be displaced in 2-3 years time, when the fences come down and all the more senior ASA pilots based on DOH bid out of ATL. It's no wonder that no one at Skywest wants to merge, in fact I can't think of anything positive that a merger with ASA could offer. All the new hires at Skywest (many hundreds) would be screwed if DOH were to be implemented.

 

[sweptback]

So, instead of getting displaced now, a large number of SkyWest pilots would be displaced in 2-3 years time, when the fences come down and all the more senior ASA pilots based on DOH bid out of ATL. It's no wonder that no one at Skywest wants to merge, in fact I can't think of anything positive that a merger with ASA could offer. All the new hires at Skywest (many hundreds) would be screwed if DOH were to be implemented.

No. That is incorrect -- you did not read what I wrote.

The only positions that people could bid on would be VACANCIES. There would be no displacements!

PS -- I'm not worried about newhires. They hired on after the purchase of ASA was complete and should have known what they were getting into (actually anybody hired after 9/15/05 at either company should have known what they were getting into).

 

[Gr82Aviate]

Good point. Nor does it equate to you being stupid, uninformed, too new to know any better, or naive.

Spicepilots,

just relax. don't you know that pilots at other airlines know how things at SkyWest work better than we do? Don't you know that they have a magic ALPA pin that they rub and it tells them the future? Don't you know that we have had it good for 30 plus years but now we're screwed?

flame on boys, flame on........

Yeah, and you've been here for what??? 11/2 of those 30 plus years and have all the answers?????

 

[It will roll]

Hey, dont mean to pose a naive question here but something I dont understand is, everyone so far seems to associate ALPA at SkyWest with a merger with ASA. Why would possible future SkyWest ALPA induce a merger if they are seperate companies now?