Who are the better pilots?

[SIG600]

The Navy had the same gig many years back. We called them SERGRAD's. Thank God that program went away.

It's still around... and actually not a bad deal these days...

Calling the T-38 a "tactical aircraft" is a little bit of a stretch. Not totally out to lunch but that statement needs some clarifiers added on to it. Also, I'm not sure but I think the T-38 came before the F-5 - so the F-5 is based on the T-38.

Ya I'm not all that well versed on the history of it but I do know this... U-2 drivers, Shuttle Pilots, etc... all use the T-38 for recurrency and the like. I don't seem them trundeling around the pattern with the autopilot on in a 767. So to call it a "trainer" and brush it off as something easy to fly is just showing your ass. I've never flown the thing, but I've heard it called such names as "the great equalizer."



And anyone that looks down their nose at a FAIP (especially Civilian) might as well go down to your local flight school and tell all those 300 hour CFI's that were private pilots 6 months ago that their crap, and couldn't amount to anything, because that's pretty much what it amounts to. Learning to fly, then turning around and passing that knowledge on before going out and doing god's work.

 

[SUNDOWN]

It's still around... and actually not a bad deal these days...


Ya I'm not all that well versed on the history of it but I do know this... U-2 drivers, Shuttle Pilots, etc... all use the T-38 for recurrency and the like. I don't seem them trundeling around the pattern with the autopilot on in a 767. So to call it a "trainer" and brush it off as something easy to fly is just showing your ass. I've never flown the thing, but I've heard it called such names as "the great equalizer."



And anyone that looks down their nose at a FAIP (especially Civilian) might as well go down to your local flight school and tell all those 300 hour CFI's that were private pilots 6 months ago that their crap, and couldn't amount to anything, because that's pretty much what it amounts to. Learning to fly, then turning around and passing that knowledge on before going out and doing god's work.

Sig if you were smart enough to fly the shuttle you sure as hell wouldn't be posting on flight info. And some of those 300 hour wonder CFI's are working for almost nothing to get into this buisness and be where alot of us are now. Think being a civillian pilot, especially in the beginning, is an easy job? Go to the NTSB website and take a look at all the freighters, GA aircraft, etc that met an untimely end. So no, I will not call anyone crap, civillian or military. Being a military pilot is no doubt a demanding job. But come on man, good pilot's come from both sides of the fence. I have flown with good and bad pilots from all backgrounds, and am proud to call myself friends with both.

 

[AlbieF15]

Sundown,

I was psyched about going to the downtown Reno whitewater park, renting a squirt boat (which BTW are about 1/2 the size of the boats I learned it...so I know there is a lot of new techniques to get my arms around...), and having some fun easing back into the sport. Alas...the 727 lost the Reno layover (friggin' Bus!) and (as you may know) I spent most of my summer recovering from back surgery.

Enough whining...are there some places close to layover cities where a pilot could rent equipment for day and/or do a whitewater workshop (think Natahala outdoor center type stuff). I'd love to mix some whitewater with a layover, but obviously bringing my own boat would not be an option (especially since I don't have one anymore..)

 

[AdlerDriver]

.....Ya I'm not all that well versed on the history of it but I do know this... U-2 drivers, Shuttle Pilots, etc... all use the T-38 for recurrency and the like. I don't seem them trundeling around the pattern with the autopilot on in a 767. So to call it a "trainer" and brush it off as something easy to fly is just showing your ass. I've never flown the thing, but I've heard it called such names as "the great equalizer."

They use them to gain extra flying hours and stay proficient flying because they are simple, easy to maintain and there are still lots of them around. I'll call it a trainer because it is. Since I have flown it, I don't consider my opinion "showing my ass". It's a fun, easy aircraft to fly. Most UPT grads would probably agree. The guys who couldn't master it and washed out needed something to call it.... I guess "great equalizer" is as good as anything.

..And anyone that looks down their nose at a FAIP (especially Civilian) might as well go down to your local flight school and tell all those 300 hour CFI's that were private pilots 6 months ago that their crap, and couldn't amount to anything, because that's pretty much what it amounts to. Learning to fly, then turning around and passing that knowledge on before going out and doing god's work.

I hope I didn't come across as looking down on a FAIP - I learned quite a bit from several. They graduated very high in their class or they wouldn't have been "asked" to return. They also were usually "good guys" because in addition to flying skills, the instructors making the call were looking for pilots they wanted in their squadron. I know a few fighter pilots who got fighters straight out of UPT. If they hadn't aced the program they probably would have gotten their last choice because they never would have been selected as a FAIP.

 

[AlbieF15]

...and to settle this the best pilots out there are civilian guys who went into the military and flew OV-10s and F-15s and have CFIIs and fly Navions and fly 727s and are fat and getting bald... At least that's my humble opinion.

 

[SUNDOWN]

Sundown,

I was psyched about going to the downtown Reno whitewater park, renting a squirt boat (which BTW are about 1/2 the size of the boats I learned it...so I know there is a lot of new techniques to get my arms around...), and having some fun easing back into the sport. Alas...the 727 lost the Reno layover (friggin' Bus!) and (as you may know) I spent most of my summer recovering from back surgery.

Enough whining...are there some places close to layover cities where a pilot could rent equipment for day and/or do a whitewater workshop (think Natahala outdoor center type stuff). I'd love to mix some whitewater with a layover, but obviously bringing my own boat would not be an option (especially since I don't have one anymore..)

Very cool man, yeah the boats have gotten short. My biggest one is 8'0 and thats for creeking. Play boats are at about 6'0. A lot of shops won't "rent" due to the risks involved ( prevents x-terra commercial watching tourists from killing themselves), but most will demo boats ( all in how you ask....) and full gear for around 40 bucks a day. I hear Reno has some great play holes. As far as layover cities I would look for something at the base of a Mountain (American River-SAC,etc). A lot of cities are creating whitewater parks in their downtowns. Check out www.americanwhitewater.org.

My vote for the best pilot goes to that kid from IRON EAGLE, that was just dam good flying.

 

[Fury220]

...and to settle this the best pilots out there are civilian guys who went into the military and flew OV-10s and F-15s and have CFIIs and fly Navions and fly 727s and are fat and getting bald... At least that's my humble opinion.

I'm with you on that one.


Someone must have poured the love sauce on this thread.

To SunDown:
I know, man -- you already think I'm a jerk...maybe I am. I just about had enough with the "way to go, Mav" and the "easy Cougar" BS. I'm a big fan of civ pilots and what you guys do, but you won't find me making fun of the way you do your jobs until you choose to cross that line with me.

Truth is, I know as much about your world as you know about mine...zilch (or close to it), which is why I usually "shut up and color." You shot your mouth off and expected me not to have an opinion about it....and then got offended that I did.

I'm young and prone to bouts of controlled audacity...the very definition of a lieutenant. Deal with it.



BTW...

S ensitive
N ew
A ge
P ilot


Just an FYI. My apologies to the rest of the board for the brief war.

 

[SUNDOWN]

All in good fun dude. Peace out fellas.

Now where can I buy some love sauce?

 

[Mud Eagle]

and have CFIIs and fly Navions

Do you have a Navion, Albie? I learned to fly in a 1948 model...

 

[AlbieF15]

62 Rangemaster...260 IO-470. Old radios but IFR--needs a (legal) IFR GPS to compliment the 295 I usually fly with. Solid (recently overhauled) engine and very nice paint and interior. Canopies are nice but 3 kids=need for 5 seats. I always thought the old Navions were cool, but never flew one. When I finally decided to get a plane I was looking at 210s, Cherokee 6s, and even (gulp) twin comanches. Anything within my budget was dogged, and the nice ones were about a year or two of work/saving out of reach. Then I found out Rangemasters had that required 5th seat and long story short found a nice one that a friend of a friend could attest to being a sweet plane, and the rest is history. I often use it to travel to workshops or to meet with individual clients for follow ups on their interview preps. It won't run down any Bonanzas or 210s but its a solid 155 mph cruiser that feels rock solid and will take off and land on strip a LOT shorter than I am comfortable using. One of these days I'll put a few shots of it on the website along with some American Navion Society links.