Who are the better pilots?

[tumbleweed]

The bros that come late to fighters are waaaay behind the Lt's that went right in, and it's rare that it actually evens out in the end. It sucks, but that's the way the system is set up right now.

Hell....I stopped caring about career progression the moment I started chugging the $3 bottle of Brut they gave all us lucky winners at assignment night! It is just nice to be off the bench and in the game, even if it is considered second string by the system.

TUMBLEWEED

 

[FastCargo]

It depends....

Hell....I stopped caring about career progression the moment I started chugging the $3 bottle of Brut they gave all us lucky winners at assignment night! It is just nice to be off the bench and in the game, even if it is considered second string by the system.

TUMBLEWEED

Depends what you mean by career progression. Do you want to fly? Or do you want to make Lt Col / SQ/CC? A lot of times the 2 questions are mutually exclusive.

FastCargo

 

[Mud Eagle]

The bros that come late to fighters are waaaay behind the Lt's that went right in, and it's rare that it actually evens out in the end.

Depends on what you mean by 'the end'. After flying tour #2 the playing field is essentially even for everyone, since this is when all the WIC/ALFA/IDE/staff games are going to start.I know more than a couple current fighter CCs who were FAIPs. Overall career progression is not an issue for a FAIP...it is only 1st ops assignment progression and (perhaps) WIC selection which suffers for FAIPs. Everything else is chicken/beef, same-same.

 

[AlbieF15]

...but WIC is a big deal. There are plenty of non-patch wearing types who've been successful, but a LOT of Sqdn CCs and certainly OGs are patch wearers. Again--always exceptions to the rule--but going to Wpns School is a good move for the guy who wants to be a tactical god, but also for the guy who wants to lead a fighter squadron/OG/wing one day.

I worked for a former OV-10 who made it to F-15 WIC, and a former VPS commander was a FAIP and a WIC grad. However...getting to Nellis when you start your fighter career as a captain is tougher. Not impossible, but tougher...

 

[stonewall]

...but WIC is a big deal. There are plenty of non-patch wearing types who've been successful, but a LOT of Sqdn CCs and certainly OGs are patch wearers. Again--always exceptions to the rule--but going to Wpns School is a good move for the guy who wants to be a tactical god, but also for the guy who wants to lead a fighter squadron/OG/wing one day.

I worked for a former OV-10 who made it to F-15 WIC, and a former VPS commander was a FAIP and a WIC grad. However...getting to Nellis when you start your fighter career as a captain is tougher. Not impossible, but tougher...

True. I didn't say it wasn't possible, only that it rarely evens out. And I guess it's all in the eye of he beholder and what you call "even." It all depends on what you want out of the AF.

 

[Swede]

Not a FAIP, but 800 hours in the SMURF jet (The blue AT-38B from HMN) gives me a tiny bit of perspective.

"Easy to fly, hard to employ" pretty much sums up tactical and fighter aircraft, and that includes the T-38. Any decent pilot can tool around in an F-16, but to put it to use to kill people and blow stuff up as a mission commander in a complex, fluid environment separates the men from the wannabees. That is what many civilians don't comprehend well. Just as I did not comprehend how a well-flown transport pilot manages energy properly to produce efficient and smooth letdowns and nice touchdowns.

In a T38, if you need to bleed some energy because you misjudged, just slap some G onto the jet. Not an option in a transport, hence energy management for the descent is more challenging in a 737, as is the actual touchdown.

There are misconceptions from both sides of the fence. I will say this, and will be flamed for it, but the worst of the autocratic, Himmler-like cockpits, with dissent crushed mercilessly, are almost always pure civilian-background Captains. And these are rare, but still more common than ex-mil. Most of these, both AF and Navy, are essentially "No violations, let's have fun, I'll buy the beer!" types.

 

[AD SUPT Hopeful]

Does anyone know about AFSOC guys (specifically AC-130s) going to weapons school?

 

[stonewall]

Does anyone know about AFSOC guys (specifically AC-130s) going to weapons school?

Yes, they are. In fact, all the MC-130s have guys attending WIC, from the 130Ps to the Talons to the Spectres. The school is very new compared to the other divisions, but they've done a great job getting it spun up and learned fast.

 

[screwed_again]

Civilian pilots are the best...

 

[stonewall]

...at bitching about how they coulda flown military, but had a better offer.

 

[stonewall]

All in good fun!

 

[Swede]

Good fun is a 4vX Red Flag, bouncing a strike package rounding Worthington, or drinking with the guys after a night tanker. Man I miss those days. Now it's the 6 hour Caracas boredom express at 25 degrees of bank and 1.3 G max. When a crossing AC passes below me, I always feel this urge to slice to his 6 and nail him with a heater. Then I wake up and realize that my chicken is geting cold.

On the other hand: I too easily forget days of MOPP gear during condition black and watching guys pass out from the heat, or watching .mil pilots who couldn't fly out of a wet paper bag get the promotions and the squadron commands because they were political, a$$ kissing experts. There's good and bad on both sides of the fence, and in all of the services. But the rewards were awesome.

 

[SUNDOWN]

...at bitching about how they coulda flown military, but had a better offer.

Have you flown with the guy who use to be a high school quarterback and couldn't quit talking about how great it was and how much he kicked as* .? All in good fun. Sorry I couldn't help it.

 

[ExAF]

Have you flown with the guy who use to be a high school quarterback and couldn't quit talking about how great it was and how much he kicked as* .? All in good fun. Sorry I couldn't help it.

Yeah...I did...He was a civilian pilot! Sorry, I couln't help it either.

 

[Rook]

Don't remind me. All my pilot training bros are on their way to the CAF to go do the mission, and I'm stuck in AETC. It's enough to drive a man to drink.

Yeah but you get to drink at Toby's and explain the meaning of 'Trim' check to MSU hotties.

Rook

 

[Rook]

Have you flown with the guy who use to be a high school quarterback and couldn't quit talking about how great it was and how much he kicked as* .? All in good fun. Sorry I couldn't help it.

Mortgage on a 3 bedroom home in rural Chicago...$200,000

Dull marriage to the redhead you banged in High school...$$$$$

2 kids that drive you to drink your woes away...$$$$$

Living next to a lesbian feminist and her pretty boy husband...$$$$

FOUR TOUCHDOWNS IN ONE GAME AT POLK HIGH...PRICELESS!!!

 

[stonewall]

Yeah but you get to drink at Toby's and explain the meaning of 'Trim' check to MSU hotties.

Rook

MSU hotties?? I think I met both of them back in '96.

 

[stonewall]

Oddly enough, they were both named "Misty." They still there?

 

[Rook]

Yeah man. The first Misty is still serving up Moons over my hammy at Denny's...and the second Misty is still running the soft serve at Golden Corral. I'll tell 'em you said what's up next time I'm in town.

 

[414Flyer]

Yeah but you get to drink at Toby's and explain the meaning of 'Trim' check to MSU hotties.

Rook

Ha, I spent many a night in Tobys, and pursued my share of MSU women. But then I was an MSU student.

But then I remember also the O'club at the time was full of high school age nato mattresses from Burkburnett.

Any of you ever meet a girl I knew there that had a tattoo of a helmet and oxygen mask on her ankle? She eventually married a pilot, but I feel sorry for the guy. Then another girl I knew seemed to have gotten a rather bad case of some social diseases, surprised the 80th didnt have to shut down for medical reasons.