Who are the better pilots?

[tumbleweed]

The bros that come late to fighters are waaaay behind the Lt's that went right in, and it's rare that it actually evens out in the end. It sucks, but that's the way the system is set up right now.

Hell....I stopped caring about career progression the moment I started chugging the $3 bottle of Brut they gave all us lucky winners at assignment night! It is just nice to be off the bench and in the game, even if it is considered second string by the system.

TUMBLEWEED

 

[FastCargo]

It depends....

Hell....I stopped caring about career progression the moment I started chugging the $3 bottle of Brut they gave all us lucky winners at assignment night! It is just nice to be off the bench and in the game, even if it is considered second string by the system.

TUMBLEWEED

Depends what you mean by career progression. Do you want to fly? Or do you want to make Lt Col / SQ/CC? A lot of times the 2 questions are mutually exclusive.

FastCargo

 

[Mud Eagle]

The bros that come late to fighters are waaaay behind the Lt's that went right in, and it's rare that it actually evens out in the end.

Depends on what you mean by 'the end'. After flying tour #2 the playing field is essentially even for everyone, since this is when all the WIC/ALFA/IDE/staff games are going to start.I know more than a couple current fighter CCs who were FAIPs. Overall career progression is not an issue for a FAIP...it is only 1st ops assignment progression and (perhaps) WIC selection which suffers for FAIPs. Everything else is chicken/beef, same-same.

 

[AlbieF15]

...but WIC is a big deal. There are plenty of non-patch wearing types who've been successful, but a LOT of Sqdn CCs and certainly OGs are patch wearers. Again--always exceptions to the rule--but going to Wpns School is a good move for the guy who wants to be a tactical god, but also for the guy who wants to lead a fighter squadron/OG/wing one day.

I worked for a former OV-10 who made it to F-15 WIC, and a former VPS commander was a FAIP and a WIC grad. However...getting to Nellis when you start your fighter career as a captain is tougher. Not impossible, but tougher...

 

[stonewall]

...but WIC is a big deal. There are plenty of non-patch wearing types who've been successful, but a LOT of Sqdn CCs and certainly OGs are patch wearers. Again--always exceptions to the rule--but going to Wpns School is a good move for the guy who wants to be a tactical god, but also for the guy who wants to lead a fighter squadron/OG/wing one day.

I worked for a former OV-10 who made it to F-15 WIC, and a former VPS commander was a FAIP and a WIC grad. However...getting to Nellis when you start your fighter career as a captain is tougher. Not impossible, but tougher...

True. I didn't say it wasn't possible, only that it rarely evens out. And I guess it's all in the eye of he beholder and what you call "even." It all depends on what you want out of the AF.

 

[Swede]

Not a FAIP, but 800 hours in the SMURF jet (The blue AT-38B from HMN) gives me a tiny bit of perspective.

"Easy to fly, hard to employ" pretty much sums up tactical and fighter aircraft, and that includes the T-38. Any decent pilot can tool around in an F-16, but to put it to use to kill people and blow stuff up as a mission commander in a complex, fluid environment separates the men from the wannabees. That is what many civilians don't comprehend well. Just as I did not comprehend how a well-flown transport pilot manages energy properly to produce efficient and smooth letdowns and nice touchdowns.

In a T38, if you need to bleed some energy because you misjudged, just slap some G onto the jet. Not an option in a transport, hence energy management for the descent is more challenging in a 737, as is the actual touchdown.

There are misconceptions from both sides of the fence. I will say this, and will be flamed for it, but the worst of the autocratic, Himmler-like cockpits, with dissent crushed mercilessly, are almost always pure civilian-background Captains. And these are rare, but still more common than ex-mil. Most of these, both AF and Navy, are essentially "No violations, let's have fun, I'll buy the beer!" types.

 

[AD SUPT Hopeful]

Does anyone know about AFSOC guys (specifically AC-130s) going to weapons school?

 

[stonewall]

Does anyone know about AFSOC guys (specifically AC-130s) going to weapons school?

Yes, they are. In fact, all the MC-130s have guys attending WIC, from the 130Ps to the Talons to the Spectres. The school is very new compared to the other divisions, but they've done a great job getting it spun up and learned fast.

 

[screwed_again]

Civilian pilots are the best...

 

[stonewall]

...at bitching about how they coulda flown military, but had a better offer.