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Where's the LUV for T34/T6 bubbas????
- Thread starter RogerMOSA
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Wolf King
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Just to add more fuel to the flame:
Yes, military flying and instructing is extremely dynamic and challenging, but also very different from the civillian sector. Let's not forget that the primary purpose of military training is the employment of a weapon system that just happens to be flying with a dude inside of it. Most of the lessons learned in the civillian sector are not learned in the military and vice versa. I could go on all day, but will make a few specific points.
How many IP's on their rare cross countries fit smoothly into the mix when entering the civillian environment? Often heard: "what is the Uniform frequency for CTR, TWR, Gnd (you name it)", "can you give me a vector for XYZ" (just can't seem to find that ATC requested fix), "Unable to fly XYZ SID/STAR" (Not on board, or just can't figure it out), "Request progressive taxi" (lost), "minimum fuel"(attempted another leg at the max limit of the aircraft, when weather present in forecast thunderstorm conditions),"unable ILS, request visual straight in", you name it. Let's not even talk about compatible airspeeds for commercial aircraft or having SA as to a smooth arrival speed sequence. Most mil guys are barely aware of 3:1 descent and decel requirements (and who would care when you can just point the nose, throw out the boards and Space Shuttle on in). Not a bash, just a different mindset.
Yeah, screaming into the break at 620 kts used to be a blast, but when I plan my descent profile into JFK, working hard to fly min speeds in the 747 in compliance with FAR's and ATC instruction only to hear yet another Jet Blue dude getting reamed for screaming in 70 knots above ATC requested speed, screwing not only himself, but everyone else on arrival. I can only guess he A:doesn't give a sh1t about airspeed compliance or B: doesn't know sh1t about energy management. This is the kind of thing you get when you throw a guy straight from the military into the right seat and then ask him to be a captain less than two years later.
Now, throw in the fact that here comes a guy who has never even flown a jet aircraft, has the attitude that "I refuse to work at anything other than a top major, compared to what I have done this is a cake walk, where is my interview?!" and there is the old recipe for embarrasment if not disaster.
Yes, military flying and instructing is extremely dynamic and challenging, but also very different from the civillian sector. Let's not forget that the primary purpose of military training is the employment of a weapon system that just happens to be flying with a dude inside of it. Most of the lessons learned in the civillian sector are not learned in the military and vice versa. I could go on all day, but will make a few specific points.
How many IP's on their rare cross countries fit smoothly into the mix when entering the civillian environment? Often heard: "what is the Uniform frequency for CTR, TWR, Gnd (you name it)", "can you give me a vector for XYZ" (just can't seem to find that ATC requested fix), "Unable to fly XYZ SID/STAR" (Not on board, or just can't figure it out), "Request progressive taxi" (lost), "minimum fuel"(attempted another leg at the max limit of the aircraft, when weather present in forecast thunderstorm conditions),"unable ILS, request visual straight in", you name it. Let's not even talk about compatible airspeeds for commercial aircraft or having SA as to a smooth arrival speed sequence. Most mil guys are barely aware of 3:1 descent and decel requirements (and who would care when you can just point the nose, throw out the boards and Space Shuttle on in). Not a bash, just a different mindset.
Yeah, screaming into the break at 620 kts used to be a blast, but when I plan my descent profile into JFK, working hard to fly min speeds in the 747 in compliance with FAR's and ATC instruction only to hear yet another Jet Blue dude getting reamed for screaming in 70 knots above ATC requested speed, screwing not only himself, but everyone else on arrival. I can only guess he A:doesn't give a sh1t about airspeed compliance or B: doesn't know sh1t about energy management. This is the kind of thing you get when you throw a guy straight from the military into the right seat and then ask him to be a captain less than two years later.
Now, throw in the fact that here comes a guy who has never even flown a jet aircraft, has the attitude that "I refuse to work at anything other than a top major, compared to what I have done this is a cake walk, where is my interview?!" and there is the old recipe for embarrasment if not disaster.
airlinepilot
Well-known member
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c5driver
Done Looking
- Joined
- Nov 26, 2003
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While entertaining, I hazard a guess that king wolf has never flown in the military...maybe still popin' zits into the bathroom mirror.Wolf King said:Just to add more fuel to the flame:
How many IP's on their rare cross countries fit smoothly into the mix when entering the civillian environment? Often heard: "what is the Uniform frequency for CTR, TWR, Gnd (you name it)", "can you give me a vector for XYZ" (just can't seem to find that ATC requested fix), "Unable to fly XYZ SID/STAR" (Not on board, or just can't figure it out), "Request progressive taxi" (lost), "minimum fuel"(attempted another leg at the max limit of the aircraft, when weather present in forecast thunderstorm conditions),"unable ILS, request visual straight in", you name it.
Had to laugh at this oneDo you really believe this rubbish?
Let's not even talk about compatible airspeeds for commercial aircraft or having SA as to a smooth arrival speed sequence. Most mil guys are barely aware of 3:1 descent and decel requirements (and who would care when you can just point the nose, throw out the boards and Space Shuttle on in). Not a bash, just a different mindset.
Funny, never had boards on the C-5. Still a mystery to me how we were able to get down to the airport all the time.
Yeah, screaming into the break at 620 kts used to be a blast,
620kts!!! Wow, you either heard "over g" or went night night before then.
but when I plan my descent profile into JFK, working hard to fly min speeds in the 747 in compliance with FAR's and ATC instruction
Hummmmm...smells fishy, you said "working hard" and "747" in the same sentence.
only to hear yet another Jet Blue dude getting reamed for screaming in 70 knots above ATC requested speed, screwing not only himself, but everyone else on arrival.
Those Blue guys are Cowboys anyway.
I can only guess he A:doesn't give a sh1t about airspeed compliance or B: doesn't know sh1t about energy management.
I pick A...no B...okay okay A.
This is the kind of thing you get when you throw a guy straight from the military into the right seat and then ask him to be a captain less than two years later.
Those Mil guys are Cowboys too.
Now, throw in the fact that here comes a guy who has never even flown a jet aircraft, has the attitude that "I refuse to work at anything other than a top major, compared to what I have done this is a cake walk, where is my interview?!" and there is the old recipe for embarrasment if not disaster.
FN FAL
Freight Dawgs Rule
- Joined
- Dec 17, 2003
- Posts
- 8,573
satpak77
Marriott Platinum Member
- Joined
- Dec 2, 2003
- Posts
- 3,015
jesus freaking H chr1st the savior
what a thread this has become
to sum it up, based on my contacts:
1. SWA has sh1tloads of apps on file
2. Lots of highly qualed dudes from all walks of life in #1 above
3. Mathematically, people just aint getting called the day after they apply
as far as everything else, you guys need to get laid or something, try de-caf, etc
later
what a thread this has become
to sum it up, based on my contacts:
1. SWA has sh1tloads of apps on file
2. Lots of highly qualed dudes from all walks of life in #1 above
3. Mathematically, people just aint getting called the day after they apply
as far as everything else, you guys need to get laid or something, try de-caf, etc
later
Wolf King
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 7, 2002
- Posts
- 149
C-5 driver,
You caught me! I'm actually 16, and at the height of my virtual airline pilot career. I started my illustrious career flying fighters on the computer, but man you should have seen the passes! An OK 3 every time, Top Hook every line period!
I will not re-rebuff the points you question, although they are all 100% true. Feel free to PM me, and I'll happily discuss them further. The only point I make is that the typical TRACOM Primary IP is a Helo guy who has found the only method available to amass a relatively high amount of fixed wing hours by droning around MOA's, restricted and warning areas punctuated by mind numbing laps around the GCA box. BTW, since the student is by definition doing the most of the monkey work (both flying and talking), what kind of pertinent experience has really been gleaned on a typical three year IP tour?
I am not saying these guys don't deserve an interview, wouldn't do a better job than I, wouldn't get through the training, etc. The only point goes back to the start of the thread, an inquiry into why Primary (T-34/T-6) type dudes (I read Active Duty) aren't getting the call. The market is flooded with guys with their same initial background or better, with solid commercial experience to boot. The answer to the initial question seems obvious.
You caught me! I'm actually 16, and at the height of my virtual airline pilot career. I started my illustrious career flying fighters on the computer, but man you should have seen the passes! An OK 3 every time, Top Hook every line period!
I will not re-rebuff the points you question, although they are all 100% true. Feel free to PM me, and I'll happily discuss them further. The only point I make is that the typical TRACOM Primary IP is a Helo guy who has found the only method available to amass a relatively high amount of fixed wing hours by droning around MOA's, restricted and warning areas punctuated by mind numbing laps around the GCA box. BTW, since the student is by definition doing the most of the monkey work (both flying and talking), what kind of pertinent experience has really been gleaned on a typical three year IP tour?
I am not saying these guys don't deserve an interview, wouldn't do a better job than I, wouldn't get through the training, etc. The only point goes back to the start of the thread, an inquiry into why Primary (T-34/T-6) type dudes (I read Active Duty) aren't getting the call. The market is flooded with guys with their same initial background or better, with solid commercial experience to boot. The answer to the initial question seems obvious.
Last edited:
Keydet
Well-known member
- Joined
- Feb 10, 2004
- Posts
- 75
Jobear--
Your simpleton evaluation of VP pilots reminds me of every FE I hated to fly with in the fleet. I believe you know the type--"Why do we have to put this much gas on, sir?" or "Why do we have to do this/that, sir?" The answer none of them understood was it was my a$$ on the line, not theirs, if something went wrong--believe me, there were plenty of important things to figure other than my "bar tab."(which is an important skill)
As far as the mil vs civ, the differences are apparent in our two cases--I've flown the War Winnebago in crappy wx/ILS's to mins, etc., all over the world (a little different to your laps around the local FBO in the "Traumahawk"). I've been privileged to instruct in both the P-3 and the T-34, and I've flown into plenty big airports and had no problem blending in, or whatever you call it, Wolfie.
Anyway, CAN'T WE JUST ALL GET ALONG??
Your simpleton evaluation of VP pilots reminds me of every FE I hated to fly with in the fleet. I believe you know the type--"Why do we have to put this much gas on, sir?" or "Why do we have to do this/that, sir?" The answer none of them understood was it was my a$$ on the line, not theirs, if something went wrong--believe me, there were plenty of important things to figure other than my "bar tab."(which is an important skill)
As far as the mil vs civ, the differences are apparent in our two cases--I've flown the War Winnebago in crappy wx/ILS's to mins, etc., all over the world (a little different to your laps around the local FBO in the "Traumahawk"). I've been privileged to instruct in both the P-3 and the T-34, and I've flown into plenty big airports and had no problem blending in, or whatever you call it, Wolfie.
Anyway, CAN'T WE JUST ALL GET ALONG??
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