Where's the LUV for T34/T6 bubbas????

[airlinepilot]

Safety first...

Just a point of order. The procedures were changed to increase SAFETY!!!

 

[jobear]

Wouldn't change any of it......except maybe getting an interview with SWA.

Bobby I haven't applied to SWA Please re-read my posts.

Jobear

 

[c5driver]

Just to add more fuel to the flame:


How many IP's on their rare cross countries fit smoothly into the mix when entering the civillian environment? Often heard: "what is the Uniform frequency for CTR, TWR, Gnd (you name it)", "can you give me a vector for XYZ" (just can't seem to find that ATC requested fix), "Unable to fly XYZ SID/STAR" (Not on board, or just can't figure it out), "Request progressive taxi" (lost), "minimum fuel"(attempted another leg at the max limit of the aircraft, when weather present in forecast thunderstorm conditions),"unable ILS, request visual straight in", you name it.

Had to laugh at this one Do you really believe this rubbish?



Let's not even talk about compatible airspeeds for commercial aircraft or having SA as to a smooth arrival speed sequence. Most mil guys are barely aware of 3:1 descent and decel requirements (and who would care when you can just point the nose, throw out the boards and Space Shuttle on in). Not a bash, just a different mindset.

Funny, never had boards on the C-5. Still a mystery to me how we were able to get down to the airport all the time.

Yeah, screaming into the break at 620 kts used to be a blast,

620kts!!! Wow, you either heard "over g" or went night night before then.

but when I plan my descent profile into JFK, working hard to fly min speeds in the 747 in compliance with FAR's and ATC instruction

Hummmmm...smells fishy, you said "working hard" and "747" in the same sentence.

only to hear yet another Jet Blue dude getting reamed for screaming in 70 knots above ATC requested speed, screwing not only himself, but everyone else on arrival.

Those Blue guys are Cowboys anyway.

I can only guess he A:doesn't give a sh1t about airspeed compliance or B: doesn't know sh1t about energy management.

I pick A...no B...okay okay A.

This is the kind of thing you get when you throw a guy straight from the military into the right seat and then ask him to be a captain less than two years later.


Those Mil guys are Cowboys too.


Now, throw in the fact that here comes a guy who has never even flown a jet aircraft, has the attitude that "I refuse to work at anything other than a top major, compared to what I have done this is a cake walk, where is my interview?!" and there is the old recipe for embarrasment if not disaster.

While entertaining, I hazard a guess that king wolf has never flown in the military...maybe still popin' zits into the bathroom mirror.

 

[BobbyB]

Type rating? I ain't buying mine til I get the job if at all, thats more of a personal thing.

Sorry JB, I must have misunderstood the meaning of this line. Let me say, I do love to see people like you who are happy with the choices they have made. That is cool.
BobbyB

 

[johnnyV]

Amen brutha

Unfortunately, it is these uneducated, perceived, general comments about military guys from one or two napolean complex civilians that ends up driving the rift in between us. Come on guys give me a break...

Don't forget people, we are on the same team!!

JV

 

[FN FAL]

I look at it this way, if there are single turbine guys in the mix of people getting jobs at LCC's...I still got a chance as well!

I think the key to the story here is that there IS a mix.

Trainability is what makes a person a great candidate for a job.

 

[satpak77]

jesus freaking H chr1st the savior

what a thread this has become

to sum it up, based on my contacts:

1. SWA has sh1tloads of apps on file

2. Lots of highly qualed dudes from all walks of life in #1 above

3. Mathematically, people just aint getting called the day after they apply

as far as everything else, you guys need to get laid or something, try de-caf, etc

later

 

[jobear]

I agree with Satpak I do need to get laid .
And I promise no more Espresso before logging on-line.

Jobear

 

[Wolf King]

C-5 driver,

You caught me! I'm actually 16, and at the height of my virtual airline pilot career. I started my illustrious career flying fighters on the computer, but man you should have seen the passes! An OK 3 every time, Top Hook every line period!

I will not re-rebuff the points you question, although they are all 100% true. Feel free to PM me, and I'll happily discuss them further. The only point I make is that the typical TRACOM Primary IP is a Helo guy who has found the only method available to amass a relatively high amount of fixed wing hours by droning around MOA's, restricted and warning areas punctuated by mind numbing laps around the GCA box. BTW, since the student is by definition doing the most of the monkey work (both flying and talking), what kind of pertinent experience has really been gleaned on a typical three year IP tour?

I am not saying these guys don't deserve an interview, wouldn't do a better job than I, wouldn't get through the training, etc. The only point goes back to the start of the thread, an inquiry into why Primary (T-34/T-6) type dudes (I read Active Duty) aren't getting the call. The market is flooded with guys with their same initial background or better, with solid commercial experience to boot. The answer to the initial question seems obvious.

 

[Keydet]

Jobear--
Your simpleton evaluation of VP pilots reminds me of every FE I hated to fly with in the fleet. I believe you know the type--"Why do we have to put this much gas on, sir?" or "Why do we have to do this/that, sir?" The answer none of them understood was it was my a$$ on the line, not theirs, if something went wrong--believe me, there were plenty of important things to figure other than my "bar tab."(which is an important skill)
As far as the mil vs civ, the differences are apparent in our two cases--I've flown the War Winnebago in crappy wx/ILS's to mins, etc., all over the world (a little different to your laps around the local FBO in the "Traumahawk"). I've been privileged to instruct in both the P-3 and the T-34, and I've flown into plenty big airports and had no problem blending in, or whatever you call it, Wolfie.
Anyway, CAN'T WE JUST ALL GET ALONG??

 

[enigma]

If it makes you T guys feel better, the best airline Captain I ever flew with was a retired T28, T34, C12, H1 pilot. Our bird was just a big Beech, but his knowledge/skills in every area were superb. The more of you guys I get to fly with, the better I like ya.

enigma

 

[Shooter38]

Having been at SWA for almost 1.5 yrs, just a quick piece of advice (worth what you paid for it;o)

Stereotyping or disparaging one group or another is not very productive in your quest to pursue a career at Southwest Airlines. The road to a major is paid in dues by both civilians and military pilots. As Chase, a valued source of information for me in my 1.5 yr poolie tour, has stated several times, wasting time trying figure out the system is probably futile. I know it is tough waiting it out, but good things come to those who wait...

One can talk to any SWA pilot and ask about the makeup of their class in the last 7-10 years, and you will find that the HR dept does a very good job of hiring/training a very good mix of pilots from all backgrounds and ages.

Your best bet is to make yourself as marketable as possible, keep your record clean, and prepare for your interview. Make sure you are the best candidate when the call comes, and always have a backup plan.

 

[PastFastMover]

I have always been of the opinion that if you got hired, the company that hired you thought you were qualified. After that it is all attitude. Would rather fly to LHR with a rank newbie that was a great guy and someone to go drink some beers with than someone who thought they were Steve Canyon, were legends in their own minds, and expected to be hired yesterday, and really should not be in that right seat. I started in the civilian and then Fighter Pilot community, but best Captain I can remember was an ex Jolly Green helicopter pilot, and that is not to say that most of the others were not outstanding also. At least for me attitude is everthing.

 

[Dave Benjamin]

To the T-34 IP's out there,

Guys I don't think you're being ignored. There's a just a lot of competition out there right now. The glut of RJ's has produced a lot of guys with 1000's of 121 PIC turbine time that have already been doing SWA style flying - pax, quick turns, busy airports, etc. Add the 1000's of furloughed guys, your fellow vets, and a bunch of talented folks from the freight, corporate, and charter segments. Result? Not a whole lotta of LUV to go around.

 

[chase]

I've watched this thread & while I have been on this board for over 5 years it is one that is repeated every so often. My comments are not directed at any particular flying group, person or category of pilot either. If I offend anyone in advance please accept this apology in advance.

Southwest is not avoiding/favoring any particular group out there. To believe they are is to lose focus on the prize. The prize isn't getting hired, the prize is preparing for your interview. If you do what is necessary for this (seeing biases in interview groups when there isn't any is not something your energy should be focused on) then you won't be at your 110% when the prize is awarded, the actual interview.

Ask yourself this, if you got the call tomorrow & they asked you to show up in a week would you feel 110% certain you are ready? Are all the squares filled, paperwork located you needed (see the website for requirements), questions thoroughly reviewed, log book fully up to speed (big issue for some), studied up on Southwest (how many airplanes do they have, where are their bases, read the various books on SWA & many other things that provide invaluable insight into the company) & searched out others who can help you prepare.

Lets face it, these are different times (no duh) than when SWA was hiring big time in the late 90s...if you could fog a mirror most majors were hiring. Applicants weren't competing with furloughed folks with big time hours, regional pilots who were going on to mainline because it was easier (I'm not saying that is bad either, it makes sense), military folks who had every legacy airline begging for them & competing for them. Nope, those days are not here & won't be for sometime in the future.

What we have now is a much more competitive hiring period & you are part of that reality, unlucky for you. Wallowing in the pity (again my apologies to those who may take offense) won't get the call any sooner but as I said, this will make you lose focus. Work on the things you can, currency (big time) PIC (big time), typed/non-type (you have control over this), complexity of aircraft, outstanding customer/work performance that results in great stories.

I have seen pilots from every imaginable group of pilots out there getting the call, so folks are getting the called, you simply aren't but get over it!! Work on the things you have control over....the last time I checked only a select few have control over who gets the call & none of them are on this board!!!

I've talked to many folks over the years who were just as frustrated as many of you are but they changed their attitude & got on with life, enjoyed everyday of it & when the phone call finally came they were excited because they had done all the things in advance in "truly" being prepared. For many they are here now & enjoying life.

The good news is your time will come, it is inevitable. That should be some relief to you. Do you have the time & patience to wait for it? Some will, some won't....that says more about the individual than it does about the "SWA process". Who is the loser in this situation? Again take control & start improving your chances right now of getting hired by Southwest by stop worrying about "the process". Yes it is great internet chat room discussion but spend your time where it can best be utilized...you have limited amounts of it!!!

Good luck to all regardless of your background, SWA will be hiring many more for years to come. I have also heard rumblings that more classes beyond what have been announced already maybe coming for the remaining part of this year. There are many factors that are coming to fruition this fall; USAir & the 30 Sept deadline of givebacks & loan payments, ATA covenants coming due, DAL facing CH 11, & many more that aren't even revealed at this time.

Ask yourself which airline is poised to take advantage of any of the legacy carriers stumbling with immediate injection of money? Only SWA. Will we take advantage of these opportunities? I suspect with a new CEO who tends to lean forward a little more & with the desire to show investors that Southwest has the ability to take advantage of increased revenue opportunties (moving into high travel arenas to fill the void left by others or optimizing current flight schedules) there are numerous plans in effect waiting to be implemented not if but when the time is right.

With Sept nearly here the next round of Oct phone calls will occur within the coming weeks (I didn't say months but weeks). Can you with 100% certainty locate every friend/supervisor that will be recommending you to SWA or person you reference in your app? If you can't then you don't want the call, believe me. Will you have uncovered every stone there is to be as ready as you can be when Oct rolls around? I hope so because a year wait is a long time & wishing you had done something different afterwards is a terrible feeling. Good luck to all & hang in there, your time will come.

Again my apologies to any of those I may have offended.

P.S. I would prefer to have the board return to its original intent, "interview related questions/issue", unfortunately it drifts into general aviation news (mostly negative unfortunately) which detracts from those persons wishing to focus on getting hired vs. predicting who is going to get furloughed. I'm not the moderator so I have no control over it and don't wish to appear insensitive to any groups but trying to truly help folks who are actively looking for employment at a major is what this board use to focus on.

 

[English]

Chase, thanks for taking the time to share your wisdom on this board, time and time again.

 

[RogerMOSA]

Chase, I hear you loud and clear. The generation of this thread was not meant to whine or expect favoritism due to being military. I chose the training command as a personal choice, prior to 9/11, to teach pilots. Our current climate in the industry since then has changed considerably. Yes, I know there are furloughed guys, commuter guys, and military guys out there flying A/C that are heavier, more complex and having a few more engines than my little T-34. Nonetheless, I am getting out of the military because my P-3 community is dying, if not dead. It's the right choice for me.

Given that, I have made as much lemonade with my lemons as possible. I met SWA/HPA in 2002 and saw the writing on the wall...result, see profile. Furthermore, when SWA calls, I am confident in my preparation and organization of my affairs.

I simply tried see if there are people out there in situations similiar to my own that have had success in this process. Just polling my peers.

RM

 

[chase]

Roger,


Again Roger I wasn't directing any criticism toward you or others, my apologies if it came across that way. I would ask you since there are many in your boat what you did to get yourself ready for the eventual phone call you hope to have soon. These insights would be very useful (maybe repetitive but a lot of new folks come on here all the time), a sort of checklist you used that may help others in walking the same path you are. It sounds like you have done the things but sharing those with the lurkers would benefit some I believe.

Which questions were the toughest? What were the mechanics for you in doing the review of the questions? How were you critiqued? What have learned through the process? other things I'm sure.

AGain thanks for hanging in there for the phone call from SWA, I do hope it comes soon but I'm sure when it does you'll be ready. Hopefully your thoughts passed on to others will provide them the same level of confidence you have, good luck & God Bless,

cheers,