Where do Ameriflight pilots end up?

[Toobdrvr]

okay...

I tried to stay away, but I gotta' bite on this pay raise issue...

While I stongly support a pay increase for all my former "freight dog" comrades, to use it as a solution to AMF's turnover situation is flawed. AMF is by essence a "stepping stone" for the vast majority of their pilots. Sure, there are a few who stick around, but not nearly enough to keep the place running. For most of us who left, it involved an initial pay cut so that we could move on to a position of higher prestige (big shiny jets, air conditioning, clean hands, flight attendants, etc). And yes, ther is a higher future earning potential.

But tell me honestly, if AMF offered you the same earning potential as an airline, would you still stick around, flying the old freighter, enduring your friends and family askng you if you are going to be a "commercial" pilot some day? I wouldn't. I'd still go for the prestige. Sure there may be a few who would stay, but would it be enough to keep the place going?

I have always found that a pay increase is a bad motivator. Sure the people who are there feel the initial boost and they are initially happier, but it fades in about 6 months. You also eventually have a new generation of pilots come in and the "new" pay increase is actually their base line. In time, they too will think a pay raise is a good idea. Eventually, you have a system of increasing cost for the same productivity...

Since Dogs Bollocks has been at AMF since I was first there (I think I know you), he can probably remember that the pay cale has actually been bumped up twice since we started, yet here we are again...

No, I really feel that AMF should accept itself for what it is regarding pilot retention (actually, they have always known it in BUR), but they could help a little with job enrichment such as improving schedules and more FOs.

Okay, this was waay too long. I'm done. Fire away...

 

[citabriapilot]

Well said Toob. I agree that a pay raise wouldn't keep me around for the long term. I'm more interested in QOL and a pay raise won't address the issue of 5-6 day work weeks and the early/late hours that accompany it.

For the short term, though, I'd be happier to see more jumpseat agreements. With the little time off I do get, making a trip back to the east coast for the weekend would be a nice way to re-boost my system. Southwest just doesn't always cut it. Throw in the option for a few non-stop flights on multiple carriers and I'd be happy while I wait for the "prestige"...

 

[Captain Morgan]

I was interested in the CVG Metro Captain's position at one point, but the thing that got me was the 3 weeks on and 1 week off. I can't commute on that from BUF. If I could, I'd be there by now. Maybe a better TDY schedule would be good, like 7 on and 7 off. 3 weeks is a long time. Also, I know that AMF is not conducive to commuting, but I can't move a family just like that. Commuting is a given in the industry and it would be nice if they were a little more responsive to it. Otherwise, they are always going to be targeting people that are young, single, and don't have alot of responsibilities for employment. Usually those people want to party at night and have a life on the road in terminals with a stew and have nights off to drink with friends. Right now the industry is allowing those people to go right to that lifestyle without having to endure life in a freighter. I just want to make a living and feed my family. Anyway, i'm done whining so enjoy the rest of your evening.

CM

 

[time builder]

I do see some career freight dogs around, they're flying Caravans. I still can't decide if it's their pay/QOL, or inability to progress from a single engine plane that keeps them from leaving.

 

[Frank Towns]

To reply to toobdrvr's remark about flying shiny jets, and responding to the "are you someday going to fly commercial?" question. I still get asked that question after I tell someone I fly for mainline UPS.
I guess even after all these years you never do get respect as a freighter.

 

[Popeye0537]

I was trolling the airline pilot central website and using the info on Regional vs AMF payscales it appeared to me that if you worked for one of the better regionals as an RJ F/O on the second year payscale you are at parity if not ahead of a BE99 Capt.

Once you make Capt then the payscale easily surges ahead of what the Metro guys make. Case in point, I used to fly with an BE1900 F/O out of BFI, three years ago he went to Express Jet, he now earns $65000/yr as a Jungle Jet Capt-about $20000/yr more than my 8yr Metro payscale!

Thats why I left, beside getting only 2 days off a week. Showing at 6am on monday and getting off at 9pm friday didn't leave much time for the weekend.

Now I may not get weekends off every month but the 15-19 days off a month sure do make up for it.

I don't think that 121 time is "watered down"....when I left AMF, metro guys were getting interviews with SWA but they weren't getting hired. One guy said SWA wanted "crew time" in something a little heavier. I would have stayed and was offered the 120 but I had to look at who I was going up against for a given job. If its a 121 gig, a guy from Skywest he will win out most every time. If it's the frac's/LCC its a toss up.

 

[barnyard]

if AMF wants pilots to stick around, they need to pay at least as much as Regional captains make (in my opinion, at least 50K for turboprops).
quote]

Great Lakes yr 1 Beech FO : 15$/hr x 75 x 12 = 13500

Great lakes yr 1 Beech CA : 26 x 75 x 12 = 23400

23400+13500= 36900

1st year Amflight Metro/1900- $40,440!

Just remember AMF'ers when you see the Lake's 1900's, you're making more than both pilots combined!

Be Safe out there!
Barnyard

 

[Toobdrvr]

Yard!

...was wondering when you'd show up. Ha!

Hope to see you soon Bro!
A

 

[TheDogsBollocks]

if AMF wants pilots to stick around, they need to pay at least as much as Regional captains make (in my opinion, at least 50K for turboprops).
quote]

Great Lakes yr 1 Beech FO : 15$/hr x 75 x 12 = 13500

Great lakes yr 1 Beech CA : 26 x 75 x 12 = 23400

23400+13500= 36900

1st year Amflight Metro/1900- $40,440!

Just remember AMF'ers when you see the Lake's 1900's, you're making more than both pilots combined!

Be Safe out there!
Barnyard

I thinks its bad form to use arguably the worst regional on the planet as the benchmark for pay comparison.

 

[SDCFI]

I thinks its bad form to use arguably the worst regional on the planet as the benchmark for pay comparison.

I think he was being phaseeshous (too lazy to look up spelling). Anywho, considering I'm making the same, or even slightly more, as a first year FO at Flexjet than I was as a 4 year Metro Captain at AMF, with a better schedule to boot says enough. I tell people Amflight was a good job, but basically there was nothing they could have done to keep me there. There's only so much you can do with 135 freight in general. Seeing as how the Lear Captains there top out at 70-80k flying the same crappy airplanes on the same crappy schedules there's no incentive to stay. That's not a knock on AMF, just reality. I enjoyed my time there, most of it anyway.

 

[flyingduck]

Are the Fedex feeders having the same pilot staffing problems?

 

[skipro101]

One thing you have to realize is that the progession at ameriflight varies greatly even among pilots hired into the same class with similar times.

There are pilots that get hired as a chieftan training capt at 600 hours, and end up 2 years later as a brasillia captain, having been a be99 captain and metro captain in between.

Then there are those who spend 3 years in the chieftan.


Ameriflight can do wonders to your career, or it can be "ok". There is no set progression in stone, it all comes down to your ability, attitude, how well your ability is percieved by management, and most of all...luck.


At lets say, a regional, the experiences of the pilot group while on the job are arguably much more uniform.

To employees at ameriflight can have vastly different experiences and views on the company based on where they get based, the management at that base, how fast they end up progressing, etc.


This isnt intended as a negative or positive post, im just saying how it is.



PS

Home every night doesnt count when you arent done untill 830PM and have to get up at 4AM. You might as well be sleeping in a motel.

 

[Linetech]

All right, fine, I'll give the story....it was simple and safe.

The remnants of Erin hit Houston the morning of the flight in question. The flight was scheduled to depart AUS at 7:45 enroute to CRP. The pilot called and asked for a briefing. He was told that he could fly the airway towards SAT, deviate west around one cell and then he would have a clear shot into CRP.

The pilot refused the flight, because the sky was "dark." He was asked one more time to reconsider, he took the flight.

End of story.

That's total B.S

I was going to keep it with in but let's get the real story out there.

Flight from AUS-CRP.. Storm just ran ashore. Pilot called DFW dispatch to get wetaher as the Computer was down at the Airport. SHE STATED weather was fine and clear! She did not adivse of any storms or going around anything. HE called FSS, FSS advised him wether was not good and alot of other carriers were holding.

He called BUR stating there was thunder storms in the area with ground strikes. We took a look at the weather and came to a JOINT decision, it was unsafe to fly though it. If he were to fly around it he would have to take on so much fuel, that you would have to bump cargo!

Again DFW called him saying why arnt you going you have to go now! So basically she was forcing the depature. Base managers steped, and he was holding for weather to improve, final say.

hour 1/2 later weather improved enought for him to depart. Not clear weather but safe enough.

End of story.

sad how I had to post that on a public forum because the other guy did not know the whole story.. or becuase he did not think the other guy could handle it!

 

[frmrBUFFdrvr]

Ameriflight can do wonders to your career, or it can be "ok". There is no set progression in stone, it all comes down to your ability, attitude, how well your ability is percieved by management, and most of all...luck.

Or how willing you are to move to where the openings are vs. stay at one base.

The majors or regionals are more uniform because this part isn't a factor. Since one trip could be in one part of the country and the next in an other, commuting isn't a big deal. When you have one person covering a set run, it's a lot tougher. Another reality of the business.

 

[ksu_aviator]

That's total B.S

I was going to keep it with in but let's get the real story out there.

Flight from AUS-CRP.. Storm just ran ashore. Pilot called DFW dispatch to get wetaher as the Computer was down at the Airport. SHE STATED weather was fine and clear! She did not adivse of any storms or going around anything. HE called FSS, FSS advised him wether was not good and alot of other carriers were holding.

Not true, she said that when he called, she wasn't at a computer but CRP was VFR at last check. Our dispatchers don't just sit in an office, they have other duties and she wasn't able to give him a weather briefing. That is why he called FSS.

He called BUR stating there was thunder storms in the area with ground strikes. We took a look at the weather and came to a JOINT decision, it was unsafe to fly though it. If he were to fly around it he would have to take on so much fuel, that you would have to bump cargo!

And why did he call BUR and not DFW? The flight was not under BUR's control. The fact is the pilot was not experienced and he was looking for someone with the same inexperience to tell him what he wanted to hear. The route I advised him to take, would have only added 5 minutes to the flight and did not require him to take on more fuel than standard. If he needed more fuel, then he had less than standard fuel on the aircraf and that needs to be addressed.

BTW, he ended up flying the exact route DFW advised him to take, and he did not take on extra fuel.

Again DFW called him saying why arnt you going you have to go now! So basically she was forcing the depature. Base managers steped, and he was holding for weather to improve, final say.

DFW asked him why he wasn't leaving because no one called and told DFW he had delayed the flight. DFW, per DHL's request, then called back later and asked if he would consider departing north and fly around the edge of the weather. Keep in mind, the weathe had only gotten closer and it was still safe to depart.

hour 1/2 later weather improved enought for him to depart. Not clear weather but safe enough.

End of story.

When he actually departed the weather was worse, not better! He was boxed in with thunderstorms north and south of the field with no clear path to his destination. Had he departed on time, he would have avoided all of that!

sad how I had to post that on a public forum because the other guy did not know the whole story.. or becuase he did not think the other guy could handle it!

Actually, you don't know the whole story, you only know what you where told and your characterization of what happened is inaccurate. Next time you want to air what you think is dirty laundry, get your facts straight.

The fact is, the pilot was asked to fly with in all AMF guidelines and not once was he asked to do anything unsafe. He didn't want to depart because he could see lightning. Well, I have news for you, in Texas, if it is dark and there is lightning, you can see it for 50 to 100 miles.

 

[Toobdrvr]

...Ahhhh...

'Nuther day at the office....

Why are you guys arguing over this here? Don't you have phones?

Sounds like the freight got there and everyone got home safe. Does anything else matter?


Hi Buff...

Toob out...

 

[Rip Vanwinkle]

The fact is the pilot was not experienced and he was looking for someone with the same inexperience to tell him what he wanted to hear. The route I advised him to take, would have only added 5 minutes to the flight and did not require him to take on more fuel than standard. If he needed more fuel, then he had less than standard fuel on the aircraf and that needs to be addressed.

Had he departed on time, he would have avoided all of that!

You sound like a fu[king joy to work for. Cross AMF off the list.

PS. How long have you been out of KSU?

 

[EatSleepFly]

You sound like a fu[king joy to work for. Cross AMF off the list.

Oh, calm down. I don't know KSU personally, but I don't think he's "like that." I think you're just misinterpreting.

Honestly, flying at AMF, you are pretty much your own boss. Come in, do your job, and go home. If you do this, you'll rarely see or hear from your ACP or other management in a "business" capacity unless you choose to.

The exception to this would be the "high maintenance" pilots that every company has. These are the people who (after the initial period of inexperience) tend to always complain, be late, "sick", slow, do questionable or stupid things, have to fill out incident reports by the handful, have more than average mechanical problems, don't follow SOP's/procedures... the list goes on. They think everyone is out to get them, when in fact they have brought their status on the "principal's" speed dial list upon themselves.

 

[DirtyBeech]

You sound like a fu[king joy to work for. Cross AMF off the list.

PS. How long have you been out of KSU?

I do know KSU personally, and have no doubt about his experience level and decision making.

This is not the place to air those concerns. Talk to the ACP or CP, and rectify the situation if any correction is actually needed.

KSU,
looks like I"ll have an extra ticket for the 29th. Care to see gameday in Austin?

 

[woog315]

Well, it made it 4 pages before it derailed completely- that's pretty good around here. Thanks for the responses from everyone