Where do Ameriflight pilots end up?

[Caveman]

earlier you said



so is it or isn't it? Or is the success in an interview more dependant on not waffle-ing on your statements?

I (and lots of others) would rather have a ex-AMF guy who flew single pilot Metros thru the soup at o-dark thirty than some new kid whose only job was right shotgun in an RJ and claimed he "had 121 time"

"121 time" is becoming a joke more and more as it gets watered down

same with "EFIS time". So what? Everybody and his brother these days has some EFIS time. So you have it? (Or don't have it, either way).

As more and more cracker-box buy-your-RJ-job schools crank out more and more pilots, the "121 time and EFIS time" gets watered down more and more.

What else do you bring to the table? When I see your resume, do I get images of a good guy, humping old broken birds thru the weather, by himself, only to unload boxes when he lands?

Or do I see images of snot-nosed kids with Ipods, wearing backpacks, who have never been outside the airplane or the terminal (thanks to jet bridges) until they get in the hotel van?

What's with all the anger towards RJ pilots? Your ridiculous stereotype of regional pilots is completely inaccurate and shows you don't know jack about the 121 world. I know a lot of RJ FO's that have more time in the right seat of airliners than you have total time. They have 'been there, done that' but are victims of entering the industry at a bad time. I've flown with RJ FO's that have time in F18s, C130s, P3s, CH53s, CH46s, C5s, 727, 737, BE99s, Metros and F100s just to name a few. They've flown combat, freight and international. Some have grandkids. More than a few have a decade or more in the industry and a lot are also working in their 4th, 5th or more flying jobs. These are not uncommon backgrounds for RJ pilots. The mythical Ipod listening, backpack wearing snot nosed kid is the exception.

I wouldn't be so quick to judge if I were you because you don't know what you are talking about.

 

[TheDogsBollocks]

What's with all the anger towards RJ pilots? Your ridiculous stereotype of regional pilots is completely inaccurate and shows you don't know jack about the 121 world. I know a lot of RJ FO's that have more time in the right seat of airliners than you have total time. They have 'been there, done that' but are victims of entering the industry at a bad time. I've flown with RJ FO's that have time in F18s, C130s, P3s, CH53s, CH46s, C5s, 727, 737, BE99s, Metros and F100s just to name a few. They've flown combat, freight and international. Some have grandkids. More than a few have a decade or more in the industry and a lot are also working in their 4th, 5th or more flying jobs. These are not uncommon backgrounds for RJ pilots. The mythical Ipod listening, backpack wearing snot nosed kid is the exception.

I wouldn't be so quick to judge if I were you because you don't know what you are talking about.

I think the point Satpak makes is as follows:

The flying magazines are awash with ad's from flight schools proclaiming "zero to right seat RJ job in 5 seconds!"

There is also plenty of "jabber jabber" within the profession about how EFIS or glass time is going to be invaluable for ones career advancement. This is despite the fact that the adjustment to glass is not that big a deal at all for the average pilot.

Although his post maybe somewhat condescending to the RJ brigade, the underlying truth is not far off the mark.

 

[ksu_aviator]

Theres a lot more to the story.. ill type it up when I'm over at the beach!

Any chance we'll get your side of the story soon?

 

[ksu_aviator]

All right, fine, I'll give the story....it was simple and safe.

The remnants of Erin hit Houston the morning of the flight in question. The flight was scheduled to depart AUS at 7:45 enroute to CRP. The pilot called and asked for a briefing. He was told that he could fly the airway towards SAT, deviate west around one cell and then he would have a clear shot into CRP.

The pilot refused the flight, because the sky was "dark." He was asked one more time to reconsider, he took the flight.

End of story.

At no time was he told to fly through it, or to violate any company policy. His hesitation was due in no small part to his lack of experience. Not that he should be faulted for that, it is just a fact. At his experience level I probably would have been just as hesitant.

Disclaimer: The following is just my opinion...

Ameriflight could avoid this if they did two things...

1. Increase pay significantly.

2. Hire FO's for all turbo prop aircraft.

I know that is a huge cost that isn't built into the contract structure. However, the pilot shortage at Ameriflight is growing rapidly. With certain regionals hiring anyone with a pulse and 500 hours, Ameriflight won't even get the chance to interview pilots before those pilot get to fly a shiney new jet with neat gadgets. The only way to get those pilots is to offer better pay and a quicker upgrade time to pilots with low time. They can't act as PIC until they hit 1200 hours and Ameriflight can't hire them at 1200 hours if they already have a job.

My way may not be the best way, it is just my idea. However, if Ameriflight doesn't get a handle on this, they face a pilot shortage that might jeopardize contracts and/or bases (watch out CVG).

 

[Toobdrvr]

before this thread squawks 7500...

AMF Sept 1999-December 2005. Hired directly to Frontier.

I like to joke that flying single pilot in the metro (and 1900) made me good at a lot of things thing don't mean a hill of beans in my present job...

The jump from AMF to a major is certainly possible, but you have to be able to demonstrate more than just piloting skills, which are becoming increasingly less important with automation. These skills include:
Teamwork (both leadership and followership)
Communication
Executive decision making
Customer Service

I love to relate some of my old AMF stories to my captains now (most of which came from the regionals). When I laugh, some of them just look at me like I'm insane!

 

[TheDogsBollocks]

Ameriflight could avoid this if they did two things...

1. Increase pay significantly.

2. Hire FO's for all turbo prop aircraft.

I know that is a huge cost that isn't built into the contract structure. However, the pilot shortage at Ameriflight is growing rapidly. With certain regionals hiring anyone with a pulse and 500 hours, Ameriflight won't even get the chance to interview pilots before those pilot get to fly a shiney new jet with neat gadgets. The only way to get those pilots is to offer better pay and a quicker upgrade time to pilots with low time. They can't act as PIC until they hit 1200 hours and Ameriflight can't hire them at 1200 hours if they already have a job.

My way may not be the best way, it is just my idea. However, if Ameriflight doesn't get a handle on this, they face a pilot shortage that might jeopardize contracts and/or bases (watch out CVG).

Very well said sir, upper management at AMF needs to realize that AMF is becoming "irrelevant" to aspiring airline pilots for career advancment.

This is disappointing because AMF by the whole is not a bad place to work, it regretfully seems though that the prevailing group think is that of the hiring climate of the early 90's-which doesn't exist any more.

AMF must make itself more attractive to what appears to be a growing shortage of desirable pilot candidates-substantially increase pay and improve working conditions or the issues of attracting and recruiting pilots will only get worse.

 

[satpak77]

The jump from AMF to a major is certainly possible, but you have to be able to demonstrate more than just piloting skills, which are becoming increasingly less important with automation. These skills include:
Teamwork (both leadership and followership)
Communication
Executive decision making
Customer Service

now doesn't that sound much better than just barking how "you need EFIS RJ time" which appears to be the typical flightinfo rant?

good post Toobdrvr

 

[traffic pilot]

As a former Amf'er and a current SWA captain I can give a little perspective for what its worth. Seems like the RJ guys come here and have an easier time transitioning to our enviroment. They are more comfortable with the distant and close in descent planning and the automation. They are also more comfortable with thunderstorm and cold wx procedures(deice). They have just been exposed a little more to it at their previous jobs. After about a year and change it all evens out. I look at these new hire rj guys and I think "Wow , this guy is way ahead of where I was when I first started here"

Whether this translates to an advantage in the hiring process I do not know. Amflighters, I do know they like checkairmen.

 

[time builder]

Very well said sir, upper management at AMF needs to realize that AMF is becoming "irrelevant" to aspiring airline pilots for career advancment.

This is disappointing because AMF by the whole is not a bad place to work, it regretfully seems though that the prevailing group think is that of the hiring climate of the early 90's-which doesn't exist any more.

AMF must make itself more attractive to what appears to be a growing shortage of desirable pilot candidates-substantially increase pay and improve working conditions or the issues of attracting and recruiting pilots will only get worse.

Agreed, AMF isn't a bad place to work. A couple years ago, pilots would have loved to have the upgrade opportunities pilots are seeing now. The fact is that people usually leave because they have even better opportunities elsewhere.

Rumors of a raise have been flying around for a while. Most will believe it when they see it, and won't be led around by a carrot on a stick. If a better opportunity comes up, and their contract is over, they're gone.

The question is: "What constitutes a better opportunity?" The consensus I'm getting is that it's worth it to go to a regional because they're upgrading fast, and if AMF wants pilots to stick around, they need to pay at least as much as Regional captains make (in my opinion, at least 50K for turboprops).

They can delay the inevitable by canceling unprofitable routes, and consolidating others for now, but eventually somethings gotta give.

 

[TheDogsBollocks]

I was trolling the airline pilot central website and using the info on Regional vs AMF payscales it appeared to me that if you worked for one of the better regionals as an RJ F/O on the second year payscale you are at parity if not ahead of a BE99 Capt.

Once you make Capt then the payscale easily surges ahead of what the Metro guys make. Case in point, I used to fly with an BE1900 F/O out of BFI, three years ago he went to Express Jet, he now earns $65000/yr as a Jungle Jet Capt-about $20000/yr more than my 8yr Metro payscale!