Where do Ameriflight pilots end up?

[kfishgirl9]

I tried to stay away, but I gotta' bite on this pay raise issue...

While I stongly support a pay increase for all my former "freight dog" comrades, to use it as a solution to AMF's turnover situation is flawed. AMF is by essence a "stepping stone" for the vast majority of their pilots. Sure, there are a few who stick around, but not nearly enough to keep the place running. For most of us who left, it involved an initial pay cut so that we could move on to a position of higher prestige (big shiny jets, air conditioning, clean hands, flight attendants, etc). And yes, ther is a higher future earning potential.

But tell me honestly, if AMF offered you the same earning potential as an airline, would you still stick around, flying the old freighter, enduring your friends and family askng you if you are going to be a "commercial" pilot some day? I wouldn't. I'd still go for the prestige. Sure there may be a few who would stay, but would it be enough to keep the place going?

I have always found that a pay increase is a bad motivator. Sure the people who are there feel the initial boost and they are initially happier, but it fades in about 6 months. You also eventually have a new generation of pilots come in and the "new" pay increase is actually their base line. In time, they too will think a pay raise is a good idea. Eventually, you have a system of increasing cost for the same productivity...

Since Dogs Bollocks has been at AMF since I was first there (I think I know you), he can probably remember that the pay cale has actually been bumped up twice since we started, yet here we are again...

No, I really feel that AMF should accept itself for what it is regarding pilot retention (actually, they have always known it in BUR), but they could help a little with job enrichment such as improving schedules and more FOs.

Okay, this was waay too long. I'm done. Fire away...

I know this thread has been declared dead, but I just wanted to comment on the pay issue, because it's something that interests me. Pay is supposed to be occasionally raised. Just because a couple of pay raises have been issued in the past doesn't mean they shouldn't continue as the economy changes.

The issue isn't, at least to me, trying to compare regional airline pay to cargo pay, but cargo pay to cargo pay. As far as I've been able to determine, Ameriflight pays under the average pay for 135 cargo companies nowadays. They may offer decent maintenance and jumpseat privileges, but other cargo companies offer that as well.

From what I understand, Freight Runners Express starts pilots around $32,000 a year for 99 drivers. Aero Charter starts their pilots at $165 / a day for C310 and C402 drivers. Now, the latter may be high for the normal pay scale, but starting pilots at a few thousand dollars more a year, or offering them the choice between getting per diem and getting a hotel for the day seems reasonable to me. It wouldn't be something that would be incentive enough for a pilot to stay forever, but it would be incentive enough to stay longer... meaning slowing turnover a bit.

 

[RefugePilot]

To reply to toobdrvr's remark about flying shiny jets, and responding to the "are you someday going to fly commercial?" question. I still get asked that question after I tell someone I fly for mainline UPS.
I guess even after all these years you never do get respect as a freighter.

Maybe to the public, but we in aviation know you have made it.

AMF could use a pay raise to make them more competitive. The $1000/yr for the 99 upgrades does not cut it. The step up in pay when you get to the metro is nice, and it can happen in a year or so if you are willing to move. However the annual increase in metro pay each year does not cover inflation. This is a message to the pilots that AMF has no motivation to keep you, get your time and move on.

Even with a pay increase, not many will stay for long, simply because the schedule sucks. There is no amount of money that would make me want to be gone from home 16 hours a day/5 days a week for my entire career.

The best thing AMF could do to retain pilots is hire more of them. It is amazing how much better the attitude is around the SLC base is when we have 4 day work weeks. Being able to be in your home on a weekday without having to call in sick, makes the schedule so much better. It may take a little longer to get to the "1000 hrs of turbine PIC", but your not really building time fast anyways, but a little QOL in the mean time would help.

I'll also throw in another vote for better jump-seat privileges.

 

[Captain Morgan]

On the metro out of CVG, how fast would you rack up the turbine pic? I've always wondered. Thanks.

 

[RefugePilot]

On the metro out of CVG, how fast would you rack up the turbine pic? I've always wondered. Thanks.

Pretty fast from what I have heard. It is the one place at AMF where you can build flight time comparable with a 121 operator.

 

[flyburg]

Well,

Back to the original question, I know of one guy that went to KLM. An American, not one of the buy hours types.

greetings

 

[Morettis]

PS

Home every night doesnt count when you arent done untill 830PM and have to get up at 4AM. You might as well be sleeping in a motel.

If you'd stop trying to do girls in Provo and find one local being home every night makes a big difference!

 

[EatSleepFly]

It is the one place at AMF where you can build flight time comparable with a 121 operator.

I wouldn't say it's the only place. I flew 70-75 hours a month my last 4 months in SLC and that isn't counting what I flew as a training captain. Every base has at least a couple runs that are decent flight time, some have several. It just depends on what you fly and your seniority.

The way I see it, it's not a race. Take the job for what it is and enjoy the ride. Guess what happens when you hit 1000 turbine PIC? Nothing. It just means your resume can get added to the stack of thousands of others. I'm no expert, but I don't even think it makes one all that competitive, in the grand scheme of things. It's who you know and how you set yourself apart from the rest that counts.

 

[EatSleepFly]

If you'd stop trying to do girls in Provo and find one local being home every night makes a big difference!

Yeah, do what Morettis does and get a girl at your layover!

Plus it could be a fun challenge to find a girl with a full set of teeth and parents who aren't siblings at some of the places we fly to! :nuts:

 

[time builder]

The best thing AMF could do to retain pilots is hire more of them.

That's the problem, turnover has always been high at AMF, the difference is that now days its hard to find someone with over 1200 hours who wants to fly a cheiftain for what AMF pays.

A few years ago, people were beating down the door to fly a lance, with the hope that some day, they might fly turbine powered equipment. Times have changed.

Retention wasn't a big issue until they started having a hard time filling classes.

 

[Freight Dog]

Don't be bashing Lances! I started at AMF in a Piper Lance. After all, it's not every day you get to fly something with a serial number 2.

On a serious note, regardless of what aircraft you're assigned to at Ameriflight, you will learn to be a CAPTAIN - confidence in your abilities, go, no-go decisions, common sense, etc.

Not to mention, you will never be as sharp on instruments as you will be at Ameriflight.

During my time at AMF (2000-2001), people were leaving for SWA and Skywest mostly. I've seen individuals leave for other places.

I left for Island Air, and in a way, I wish I had stayed at Ameriflight.

But even now at Aloha, I ran into several Ameriflight alumni.

Bottom line, you'll find Ameriflight alumni everywhere, at every airline, at just about every fractional, you'll see them around SoCal moving on to reputable charter operators, you name it.

One thing I'd say is sad is really that with the regionals scooping up guys with wet commercial tickets, AMF will be having a tough time finding pilots.