When is US Air West going to sue ALPA?

[becket]

Prater obviously doesn't get it yet. He's allowing a handful of pissed off easties to hijack the entire union as well as a multi billion dollar merger. How long does he think he can hold off litigation?

He F'es around with this "not presenting the list" BS much longer, he's going to get his ass handed to him in court (an ALPA specialty). This time by the west guys, the difference being...they'll win unlike the East side who doesn't have a leg to stand on.

Wake up Prater You've already passed the iceberg. Do what is right ...there's no more negotiating and you damn well know it, the list is here. Be a man and a leader and deal with it. Let them throw their tantrum and if it makes you feel any better, remind them that hind-sight is always 20-20

 

[MCDU]

Someone wants to cash in his lottery ticket. Ain't gonna happen. The majority rules.

Marty

 

[trainer8]

Prater obviously doesn't get it yet. He's allowing a handful of pissed off easties to hijack the entire union as well as a multi billion dollar merger. How long does he think he can hold off litigation?

He F'es around with this "not presenting the list" BS much longer, he's going to get his ass handed to him in court (an ALPA specialty). This time by the west guys, the difference being...they'll win unlike the East side who doesn't have a leg to stand on.

Wake up Prater You've already passed the iceberg. Do what is right ...there's no more negotiating and you damn well know it, the list is here. Be a man and a leader and deal with it. Let them throw their tantrum and if it makes you feel any better, remind them that hind-sight is always 20-20

So...did you write Captain Prater and tell him yourself or do you always communicate to Union Presidents on FI.com?

 

[AA717driver]

The majority rules.

Marty

No, the arbitrator ruled. TC

 

[bearcat]

Prater obviously doesn't get it yet. He's allowing a handful of pissed off easties to hijack the entire union as well as a multi billion dollar merger. How long does he think he can hold off litigation?

He F'es around with this "not presenting the list" BS much longer, he's going to get his ass handed to him in court (an ALPA specialty). This time by the west guys, the difference being...they'll win unlike the East side who doesn't have a leg to stand on.

Wake up Prater You've already passed the iceberg. Do what is right ...there's no more negotiating and you damn well know it, the list is here. Be a man and a leader and deal with it. Let them throw their tantrum and if it makes you feel any better, remind them that hind-sight is always 20-20

WOW! Just what you need. One files a lawsuit becasue they think they have been screwed and another files a lawsuit so they can keep what screwing the east think they did to them. Instead why doesn't someone step up and say let us unify and get a contract that is somewhere near industry average? How about an industry leading contract? I think both sides are wrong! Stop being a bunch of qussies and EARN a contract!

 

[ferlo]

Someone wants to cash in his lottery ticket. Ain't gonna happen. The majority rules.

Marty

I don't work for US Air...and comparing working there to "winning the lottery" is hysterical...thanks for the laugh. I needed it.

 

[grog_sit_reserv]

I'm ready to sue.

 

[ultrarunner]

Let me ask the East folks this:

Do you think it any way possible that you'll find a judge to OVERTURN a ruling in which both sides agreed to such binding arbitration?

I would say thats precedent-setting. I can't imagine this ever gets in front of a judge.

But one thing is certain. ALPA will have chaffed a bunch of money.

 

[grog_sit_reserv]

East is suing West MEC and MEC Chair. I don't think ALPA National is named.

West should sue ALPA to do its duty and submit the list.

 

[MCDU]

Looks like America West Pilots find themselves in the same boat as USAIR pilots did a few years ago-No movement. Pilots on reserve and not moving up.
The training center in Clt is going like crazy and they are even sending people to PHX for training. Funny how career expectations change. Well, I can only hope that America West pilots move on and not make the same mistake as your 18yr USAIR pilots. Delta,United,CAL etc. are all hiring. Good luck

Marty

 

[ferlo]

Looks like America West Pilots find themselves in the same boat as USAIR pilots did a few years ago-No movement. Pilots on reserve and not moving up.
The training center in Clt is going like crazy and they are even sending people to PHX for training. Funny how career expectations change. Well, I can only hope that America West pilots move on and not make the same mistake as your 18yr USAIR pilots. Delta,United,CAL etc. are all hiring. Good luck

Marty

If I was on the East side I'd be worried that aircraft are going to start moving to the west certificate and the furloughs would begin anew over there. Any control ALPA thinks it has over this business deal is pure fantasy. 3500 pissed of drivers ain't gonna stop this thing. Managment will force it one way or another.

 

[cactusboy53]

Grog;
Here's what should concern ALL other ALPA pilots on properties other than LCC: Since the AAA MEC has filed a lawsuit against the AWA MEC, who do you think will be paying for the West side litigation?

I'll bet it will collectively be all of them. The only winners will be the lawyers.

 

[DustyBottoms]

Looks like America West Pilots find themselves in the same boat as USAIR pilots did a few years ago-No movement. Pilots on reserve and not moving up.
The training center in Clt is going like crazy and they are even sending people to PHX for training. Funny how career expectations change. Well, I can only hope that America West pilots move on and not make the same mistake as your 18yr USAIR pilots. Delta,United,CAL etc. are all hiring. Good luck

Marty

AWA has definitely stagnated for the last 2 years, but it's not the same boat. The East’s boat had a bunch of holes in it, and no matter how much water they bailed, it was sinking. The West’s boat has been Hijacked and is heading toward the falls.
The East's plight was caused by company mismanagement and other external forces, while the West’s quandary is caused by the East pilots.

But you’re right about how funny it is that career expectations change, and while I was content at America West, the applications are being filled out. A lot of people are saying that the West Pilots received a windfall, especially the junior punks. And that the furloughed East pilots got a screw job. But it’s the junior AWA punks that are filling out resumes or accepting recall to other companies, while new hire classes at LCC are being filled by furloughed East pilots. So who really thinks that their career expectations have improved since this merger? Actions speak louder than words.

 

[Fast43]

East is suing West MEC and MEC Chair. I don't think ALPA National is named.

quote]

Interestingly it is this suit that will break the logjam. With out the suit ALPA could have held on to the list trying to appear neutral while trying to force the groups to sort something out, as the list is not needed right away.

However as the east, in the name of "doing something" has filed this suit. ALPA will have to begin defending the Arbitration.

Thank You East guys!!!

 

[xanderman]

Someone wants to cash in his lottery ticket. Ain't gonna happen. The majority rules.

Marty

Marty,
Don't be upset with the pilots here at AWA. We challenged our Merger Committee to get us the best possible deal. That, I believe, is exactly what you and your Merger Committee wanted for yourselves. In the end your inability to move off of your DOH position proved to be your undoing with Nicolau. So please do not post on this board about how we won the lottery. We played the game just as you did. Obviously Nicolau saw something you guys out east are not. Or simply refuse to see. Either way it makes no difference now. The list is the list. No bargaining agent change or litigation will see the list vacated as your MEC seems to think it will. I love the irony in your little mantra "Educate to Vacate." Educate!? Yeah exactly! Educate yourself on just what it woud take to overturn this binding arbitration. Binding arbitration that you and your pilot group voluntarily entered into. Please insist that your Merger Committee release the transcripts from the arbitration hearings. Please insist that your MEC illustrate exactly how they intend to sue the AWA MEC and it's Chairman (incase your MEC continues with it's plan of deception you should know that the AWA MEC and it's Chair have not even been served yet. No suit with no service my friend). And when you have educated yourself ask yourself if you really have a chance. In the end if you still insist on believing that I and my fellow west pilot won the lottery then that's fine. But you cannot deny the fact that we entered into this binding arbitration just as you and your fellow pilots did totally uncertain of the outcome thereby making this a fair game. In every game there is a winner and a loser. We happened to be better prepared it would seem...

 

[DustyBottoms]

Grog;
Here's what should concern ALL other ALPA pilots on properties other than LCC: Since the AAA MEC has filed a lawsuit against the AWA MEC, who do you think will be paying for the West side litigation?

I'll bet it will collectively be all of them. The only winners will be the lawyers.

They already are. Every single pilot who is represented by ALPA is having a portion of their paycheck pay for the West MEC to attend these discussions on the East Coast. And once the West begins their defense of the lawsuit, it will also be paid for out the pockets of every ALPA pilot.

 

[xanderman]

Guys this suit is without merit and I believe the judge will toss it without even hearing a word of arguement.

As far as ALPA membership being stuck with the defense bill remember that the EAST now hates ALPA and wants to see it removed from the property. How misguided they are. They should be suing the counsel they hired to assist their merger committee. It would appear that the east believes they are incapable of making a bad decision. Just like a child it is everyone else who is to blame...

 

[TWA Dude]

There's no need for AWA-MEC to file yet. The EC has to make their decision first.

 

[TWA Dude]

If I was on the East side I'd be worried that aircraft are going to start moving to the west certificate and the furloughs would begin anew over there.

First of all, the West Certificate will exist no longer if the company sticks to its plan this autumn. Second, the Transition Agreement prevents the transfer of metal from one side to the other.

 

[MK82Man]

TWA -- don't you think we are in the early stages of capturing East flying out West? Let's say the company sticks to the one certificate by end of September ... well, then we are all "US" then. Parker can make great strides to create new routes and bring new/more metal West and slowly attrit the East. With West guys doing Charlotte turns (back and forth to FL) in the August bid package, I see that as the handwriting on the wall. Fly East, do a bunch of East Coast up and down runs, and then come home; or at least more of the Charlotte Portland type legs before coming to LAS or PHX. Parker won't let the East guys sink the ship (CNXs out there are way to high) and by moving to one certificate he elimates the whipsaw. There aren't two pilot groups anymore .... thoughts?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Don't be upset with the pilots here at AWA. We challenged our Merger Committee to get us the best possible deal.

At whos expense....

. In every game there is a winner and a loser. We happened to be better prepared it would seem

Winner and loser...... ? Are you kidding?

The precedence this sets makes us all losers.... in how it was handled.... once again pitting pilot against pilot.... maybe management is a winner here.... but AWA Pilots?

 

[Lampshade]

TWA -- don't you think we are in the early stages of capturing East flying out West? Let's say the company sticks to the one certificate by end of September ... well, then we are all "US" then. Parker can make great strides to create new routes and bring new/more metal West and slowly attrit the East. With West guys doing Charlotte turns (back and forth to FL) in the August bid package, I see that as the handwriting on the wall. Fly East, do a bunch of East Coast up and down runs, and then come home; or at least more of the Charlotte Portland type legs before coming to LAS or PHX. Parker won't let the East guys sink the ship (CNXs out there are way to high) and by moving to one certificate he elimates the whipsaw. There aren't two pilot groups anymore .... thoughts?

All that east flying out of PHX is to cover the short staffing on the east doms. The schedules should slowly be changing back because they have a lot of guys coming out of training and getting on line.

 

[Thebadcat1313]

At whos expense....





Winner and loser...... ? Are you kidding?

The precedence this sets makes us all losers.... in how it was handled.... once again pitting pilot against pilot.... maybe management is a winner here.... but AWA Pilots?

There are no winners or losers as far as the integration is concerned. Everybody got relative seniority. East side has enjoyed growth, recalls and upgrades while the west has stagnated for the last 2.5 years. The future is potentially very bright for this company and our careers if we can all get our heads out of our asses and move forward with a joint contract. Prater needs to present the list and show that he has some cajones. If the East wants to try to pull out of ALPA, so be it. I think it's a lot of hot air that won't amount to jack in front of a judge, at least as far as changing the arbitration. Prater can not worry himself with that. That's what leadership is about, doing the right thing regardless of the consequences.

 

[xrated]

There are no winners or losers as far as the integration is concerned. Everybody got relative seniority. East side has enjoyed growth, recalls and upgrades while the west has stagnated for the last 2.5 years. The future is potentially very bright for this company and our careers if we can all get our heads out of our asses and move forward with a joint contract. Prater needs to present the list and show that he has some cajones. If the East wants to try to pull out of ALPA, so be it. I think it's a lot of hot air that won't amount to jack in front of a judge, at least as far as changing the arbitration. Prater can not worry himself with that. That's what leadership is about, doing the right thing regardless of the consequences.

I need a shot of the coolaid you're drinking!!!

 

[PHXFLYR]

At whos expense....





Winner and loser...... ? Are you kidding?

The precedence this sets makes us all losers.... in how it was handled.... once again pitting pilot against pilot.... maybe management is a winner here.... but AWA Pilots?

Well,well,well. If it isn't Alpa National's little boot licker Mark.You ever get tired of carrying their water?


PHXFLYR

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Well,well,well. If it isn't Alpa National's little boot licker Mark.You ever get tired of carrying their water?


PHXFLYR

Got a better solution? or let me make it easy for you... do you have any solution?

 

[TWA Dude]

Quote by MK82Man:
TWA -- don't you think we are in the early stages of capturing East flying out West?

No. Lampshade is correct, although there isn't necessarily any reason to move the routes back soon. How ever the PBS builds the pairings we'll eventually be flying all over each other's system.

Let's say the company sticks to the one certificate by end of September ... well, then we are all "US" then. Parker can make great strides to create new routes and bring new/more metal West and slowly attrit the East.

The Transition Agreement addresses this. Until the integration (meaning a joint CBA) is complete the sides can't be whipsawed in this manner.

With West guys doing Charlotte turns (back and forth to FL) in the August bid package, I see that as the handwriting on the wall.

You're reading too much into it. The East is more short-staffed than the West.

 

[PHXFLYR]

Got a better solution? or let me make it easy for you... do you have any solution?

Yup. Follow the f-n constitution and bylaws that you thugs are supposed to follow,specifically section 45 as it pertains to binding arbitration and presenting and defending the new list to mgmt . Or did you conviently overlook that part? And quit inflating your own egos by playing politics and creating these assinnine commissions that produce absolutley nothing of consequence. The "Rice Commission " GMAFB. And ,last but not least,let's get rid of suck-ups like you. Any other smart a$$ questions?


PHXFLYR

 

[xanderman]

At whos expense....





Winner and loser...... ? Are you kidding?

The precedence this sets makes us all losers.... in how it was handled.... once again pitting pilot against pilot.... maybe management is a winner here.... but AWA Pilots?

Certainly not at your beloved ALPA's expense. We have all put our own money into a merger fund to pay for the merger process. And any additional monies provided by ALPA was given to both sides (and those monies would be provided for any merger). The cost you will see will come because of the frivolous lawsuit being brought by the whiners out east.

I'll admit I could have phrased it better concerning the "winners and losers" comment. However my point stands. They have no one to blame except themselves. Their DOH screwed them. And it's not like they have not dealt with Nicolau before! We, on the other hand, worked to find a solution that satisfied as many as possible.

As far as ALPA is concerned... Let me just say that they are shooting themselves in the foot. The way the EC and Prater have handled this is pathetic. They themselves are NOT remaining neutral by withholding the new list. Honestly I am no longer a fan of ALPA. Nothing better you say? Well maybe not. But why participate? Why fund through dues? Why do anything for ALPA when they outright rfuse to represent you and your fellow pilots. ALPA is totally ineffective when it comes to dealing with two ALPA pilot groups. We see it time and time again. I'd rather see an in-house union. At least I know they'd be more interested in truely representing me...

Andy

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

As far as ALPA is concerned... Let me just say that they are shooting themselves in the foot. The way the EC and Prater have handled this is pathetic. They themselves are NOT remaining neutral by withholding the new list. Honestly I am no longer a fan of ALPA. Nothing better you say? Well maybe not. But why participate? Why fund through dues? Why do anything for ALPA when they outright rfuse to represent you and your fellow pilots. ALPA is totally ineffective when it comes to dealing with two ALPA pilot groups. We see it time and time again. I'd rather see an in-house union. At least I know they'd be more interested in truely representing me...

Well that is all fine... ALPA isn't the only solution...but it would seem to easier and better fix the current model than create a new one....