When is US Air West going to sue ALPA?

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Don't be upset with the pilots here at AWA. We challenged our Merger Committee to get us the best possible deal.

At whos expense....

. In every game there is a winner and a loser. We happened to be better prepared it would seem

Winner and loser...... ? Are you kidding?

The precedence this sets makes us all losers.... in how it was handled.... once again pitting pilot against pilot.... maybe management is a winner here.... but AWA Pilots?

 

[Lampshade]

TWA -- don't you think we are in the early stages of capturing East flying out West? Let's say the company sticks to the one certificate by end of September ... well, then we are all "US" then. Parker can make great strides to create new routes and bring new/more metal West and slowly attrit the East. With West guys doing Charlotte turns (back and forth to FL) in the August bid package, I see that as the handwriting on the wall. Fly East, do a bunch of East Coast up and down runs, and then come home; or at least more of the Charlotte Portland type legs before coming to LAS or PHX. Parker won't let the East guys sink the ship (CNXs out there are way to high) and by moving to one certificate he elimates the whipsaw. There aren't two pilot groups anymore .... thoughts?

All that east flying out of PHX is to cover the short staffing on the east doms. The schedules should slowly be changing back because they have a lot of guys coming out of training and getting on line.

 

[Thebadcat1313]

At whos expense....





Winner and loser...... ? Are you kidding?

The precedence this sets makes us all losers.... in how it was handled.... once again pitting pilot against pilot.... maybe management is a winner here.... but AWA Pilots?

There are no winners or losers as far as the integration is concerned. Everybody got relative seniority. East side has enjoyed growth, recalls and upgrades while the west has stagnated for the last 2.5 years. The future is potentially very bright for this company and our careers if we can all get our heads out of our asses and move forward with a joint contract. Prater needs to present the list and show that he has some cajones. If the East wants to try to pull out of ALPA, so be it. I think it's a lot of hot air that won't amount to jack in front of a judge, at least as far as changing the arbitration. Prater can not worry himself with that. That's what leadership is about, doing the right thing regardless of the consequences.

 

[xrated]

There are no winners or losers as far as the integration is concerned. Everybody got relative seniority. East side has enjoyed growth, recalls and upgrades while the west has stagnated for the last 2.5 years. The future is potentially very bright for this company and our careers if we can all get our heads out of our asses and move forward with a joint contract. Prater needs to present the list and show that he has some cajones. If the East wants to try to pull out of ALPA, so be it. I think it's a lot of hot air that won't amount to jack in front of a judge, at least as far as changing the arbitration. Prater can not worry himself with that. That's what leadership is about, doing the right thing regardless of the consequences.

I need a shot of the coolaid you're drinking!!!

 

[PHXFLYR]

At whos expense....





Winner and loser...... ? Are you kidding?

The precedence this sets makes us all losers.... in how it was handled.... once again pitting pilot against pilot.... maybe management is a winner here.... but AWA Pilots?

Well,well,well. If it isn't Alpa National's little boot licker Mark.You ever get tired of carrying their water?


PHXFLYR

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Well,well,well. If it isn't Alpa National's little boot licker Mark.You ever get tired of carrying their water?


PHXFLYR

Got a better solution? or let me make it easy for you... do you have any solution?

 

[TWA Dude]

Quote by MK82Man:
TWA -- don't you think we are in the early stages of capturing East flying out West?

No. Lampshade is correct, although there isn't necessarily any reason to move the routes back soon. How ever the PBS builds the pairings we'll eventually be flying all over each other's system.

Let's say the company sticks to the one certificate by end of September ... well, then we are all "US" then. Parker can make great strides to create new routes and bring new/more metal West and slowly attrit the East.

The Transition Agreement addresses this. Until the integration (meaning a joint CBA) is complete the sides can't be whipsawed in this manner.

With West guys doing Charlotte turns (back and forth to FL) in the August bid package, I see that as the handwriting on the wall.

You're reading too much into it. The East is more short-staffed than the West.

 

[PHXFLYR]

Got a better solution? or let me make it easy for you... do you have any solution?

Yup. Follow the f-n constitution and bylaws that you thugs are supposed to follow,specifically section 45 as it pertains to binding arbitration and presenting and defending the new list to mgmt . Or did you conviently overlook that part? And quit inflating your own egos by playing politics and creating these assinnine commissions that produce absolutley nothing of consequence. The "Rice Commission " GMAFB. And ,last but not least,let's get rid of suck-ups like you. Any other smart a$$ questions?


PHXFLYR

 

[xanderman]

At whos expense....





Winner and loser...... ? Are you kidding?

The precedence this sets makes us all losers.... in how it was handled.... once again pitting pilot against pilot.... maybe management is a winner here.... but AWA Pilots?

Certainly not at your beloved ALPA's expense. We have all put our own money into a merger fund to pay for the merger process. And any additional monies provided by ALPA was given to both sides (and those monies would be provided for any merger). The cost you will see will come because of the frivolous lawsuit being brought by the whiners out east.

I'll admit I could have phrased it better concerning the "winners and losers" comment. However my point stands. They have no one to blame except themselves. Their DOH screwed them. And it's not like they have not dealt with Nicolau before! We, on the other hand, worked to find a solution that satisfied as many as possible.

As far as ALPA is concerned... Let me just say that they are shooting themselves in the foot. The way the EC and Prater have handled this is pathetic. They themselves are NOT remaining neutral by withholding the new list. Honestly I am no longer a fan of ALPA. Nothing better you say? Well maybe not. But why participate? Why fund through dues? Why do anything for ALPA when they outright rfuse to represent you and your fellow pilots. ALPA is totally ineffective when it comes to dealing with two ALPA pilot groups. We see it time and time again. I'd rather see an in-house union. At least I know they'd be more interested in truely representing me...

Andy

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

As far as ALPA is concerned... Let me just say that they are shooting themselves in the foot. The way the EC and Prater have handled this is pathetic. They themselves are NOT remaining neutral by withholding the new list. Honestly I am no longer a fan of ALPA. Nothing better you say? Well maybe not. But why participate? Why fund through dues? Why do anything for ALPA when they outright rfuse to represent you and your fellow pilots. ALPA is totally ineffective when it comes to dealing with two ALPA pilot groups. We see it time and time again. I'd rather see an in-house union. At least I know they'd be more interested in truely representing me...

Well that is all fine... ALPA isn't the only solution...but it would seem to easier and better fix the current model than create a new one....

 

[PCL_128]

Well,well,well. If it isn't Alpa National's little boot licker Mark.You ever get tired of carrying their water?


PHXFLYR

Rez is most certainly not Mark.

 

[PCL_128]

That's what leadership is about, doing the right thing regardless of the consequences.

No, that's not leadership, that's blind idealism. I'm not one to defend Prater, but expecting him to simply ignore the concerns brought forth by the East pilots is ridiculous.

 

[grog_sit_reserv]

It's not if the East's concerns are ridiculous.

They took it to arbitration. They brought this onto themselves with their unrealistic expectations. And now Prater is letting all the alpa groups down by waffling when his duty is clear: Enforce an arbitrated award.

3800 angry pilots are driving an organization of "60,000 pilots who fly for 41 U.S. and Canadian airlines."

Prater is a coward.

ALPA is a pathetic waste of money.

 

[PHXFLYR]

It's not if the East's concerns are ridiculous.

They took it to arbitration. They brought this onto themselves with their unrealistic expectations. And now Prater is letting all the alpa groups down by waffling when his duty is clear: Enforce an arbitrated award.

3800 angry pilots are driving an organization of "60,000 pilots who fly for 41 U.S. and Canadian airlines."

Prater is a coward.

ALPA is a pathetic waste of money.

AMEN!!!!


PHXFLYR

 

[PHXFLYR]

Well that is all fine... ALPA isn't the only solution...but it would seem to easier and better fix the current model than create a new one....

Not when the current model is beyond fixing. I'd much rather put all that time energy and effort into creating an in house union from scratch rather than waste one more second trying to salvage this poor excuse of a union known as ALPA. What a waste.

PHXFLYR

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Not when the current model is beyond fixing. I'd much rather put all that time energy and effort into creating an in house union from scratch rather than waste one more second trying to salvage this poor excuse of a union known as ALPA. What a waste.

PHXFLYR

Sounds good.... what's your plan......

 

[grog_sit_reserv]

Well, [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]First I'm gonna need Three-In-One oil and some gauze pads. And I'm gonna need about ten quarts of anti-freeze, preferably Prestone. No... no make that Quaker State.

Apologies to Fletch and my ALPA brothers.
[/SIZE][/FONT]

 

[Ace McCoy]

Dudes seriously. Binding Arbitration. What part of binding is so hard to understand?

If you don't like the results don't frickin agree to Binding Arbitration. Sounds simple to me.

 

[AVI8V1]

I may be mistaken but isn't part of the east's argument include accusations that Nicolau did not follow the guidelines in front of him for the integration and therefore the arbitration is not valid?

 

[FDJ2]

I may be mistaken but isn't part of the east's argument include accusations that Nicolau did not follow the guidelines in front of him for the integration and therefore the arbitration is not valid?

Of course they are going to argue that, but ultimately they will lose the argument.

The East is going to utilize every avenue available to them to defeat this binding arbitration, but ultimately the Nicolau decision will prevail, ALPA will deliver the list to management and it will be implemented.

In the meantime, expect more of the same from the East, they are simply trying to create some leverage to get the West MEC back into negotiations, but unfortunately for the East, that train has left the station.