Whats up with civi pilots?

[Kuma]

WillowRun is the king...

WillowRunVortex is the king of his kingdom. He flies out of the same dozen airports every day, so he knows the navaids between here and there. Break out a chart? That is absolutely amateurish. He doesn't have time for that! Brief the copilot on possible routings while they hang out in the crew lounge watching the weather channel? No way, the copilot should just know! WillowRunVortex should be single piloted, because he already knows it all.

BTW, do you want the T/O and Landing distance calculated to the foot or "instantly"? I think most people could say the landing roll out is "3.9" but if you want me to say that it is 3,921 feet give me a minute to pull out a calculator. Also, I am surprized that your ops manual allows a landing on a 5000 foot snow covered runway with no thrust reverse. You must have great anti-lock brakes. Maybe WillowRun is just a cowboy who says that if the landing roll is 4,952 feet then it is "safe" to land on a 5,000 foot runway. Sometimes the pilot is supposed to say "no".

If you want your copilot to calculate the timing for you and call out your MDAs, then it should be in your Ops manual, or you should brief him. Otherwise, he is going to expect that you know how to fly an NDB approach by looking at the diagram.

I think this is the second time I got sucked into this absolutely asinine post by WillowRunVortex. You are a shame to the piloting profession and I hope that the pilots who have to fly with you treat you with the respect you deserve...

Kuma

 

[AdlerDriver]

Big Fish, Little Pond

If I got an immediate for a hard on demand 135 trip in a Lear or a Falcon, I certainly would prefer a 1500 hr civilian who had done all his flying as a civilian, rather than a 1500 hr "TopGun" who got the job because of his military background.
Probably better – that way you’ll have the best chance that the F/O will believe (and put up with) your BS!! By the way, did you really need to start your post talking about your “hard on”?

I need someone who I can tell where we’re going and have him run to the phone file a flight plan with Flight Service without having to break out with the god da_mn charts,,,so that we are ready to start engines in about 8 minutes after he picks up the phone.
Yeah, it’s much more professional to avoid those silly charts and enroute notams – just file what you did last week – I’m sure it will all work out.

I need someone who can quickly and correctly calculate T/O and landing weights and distances by glancing at a card almost instantly. In 135 on-demand freight, T/O and landing distances are computed to the foot.
Almost INSTANTLY!!?? WOW! Most military guys I know have such a hard time with those pesky nu… nub….. numbers. AND – they’re computed to the FOOT!!! The big question is - are the takeoffs and landings FLOWN to the foot?

When was the last time the NAVY or the USAF told you to land on a snow covered un-controlled 5000ft runway in a 26,000lbs jet with no reverse,,, with your only ground resource being "Fred" the fork-lift/ truck driver giving you braking action reports from the radio in his truck?
Uhhh – Never. Not real disappointed about that – Looks good on you, though. Not to mention that with all the USAF and Navy facilities around the world, Fred and his forklift would be extremely over-worked. You keep him – it sound like you need him more. So, what’s the hard part? Deciding to believe Fred? Once you make the decision to land, what is it about flying an approach that is so unique? Fly a great approach, land on speed in the beginning of the touchdown zone and get on the brakes. Something about that is hard? Well, if you say so.

We don’t have 10,000 ft runways all the time or a tail hook to stop us. We don't have the "nylon let-down" either. If we are wrong in our decisions,,,we're fu_cked.
My God! How do you live from day to day with so much riding on you decisions? Do you say a tearful goodbye to your family each day before you go make such decisions? I’m so thankful that I never had to be concerned with the ramifications of my decisions in the military thanks to 10,000’ runways and tail hooks.

I need someone who can work antiquated radar unites. I need someone who can hand fly a jet at high altitudes (370 for the Falcon, 410 for the Lear) with-out an auto-pilot (this is where everyone fails), so we can get up to an altitude where we have a fighting chance of completing the trip without running out of gas (we can't "hook-up" with a tanker in the real world either).
Oh…. Right, I forgot. If a military guy can’t get the altitude he needs or mis-manages his fuel profile, there’s ALWAYS a tanker to pull his nuts out of the fire. They just fly around waiting for us to pork it away and then magically show up to save the day. Other guys have already talked about your amazing ability to hand fly at altitude. Again, If you say it’s hard for you, I can only believe it. Subsonic, Transonic, M1.0, M1.5, M2.0… hand flown from surface to FL500…. For some reason, that was never my biggest challenge.

And before you fighter guys chime in I guarantee you it will take plenty of time for you to hold altitude at 410 in a 20 series Learjet with-out an auto-pilot.
Ooooooooh. The last great challenge in aviation. :laugh:

I need someone who knows how to pick their way thru a thunderstorm without going 150 miles out of the way to get around it.
Who’s in charge of your aircraft, Captain?

I need someone that will keep his cool and won't say dumb sh1t on the radio when something quits working on the aircraft.
Yup. As soon as the SAMs started flying, I encountered a Mig or had an engine fire, the first thing my training taught me to do was key the mike and say something stupid. You mean that’s not right? We’re all so impulsive that way.

These are actual things I encountered while flying out of YIP with ex-military guys. Granted the FO's were new at the time, but they were not ready for the trips, in my opinion.
And everyone knows the cream of the crop is getting out of the military in search of a -135 freight job flying Lear jets out of Michigan.

When I think of flying a single seat fighter with a tail hook, an ejection seat, in-flight refueling capability, and enough power to make the wing an after-thought, I think of relief.
I guess that’s as good as anything else you might think of…. You certainly can’t think of those things with any kind of first hand knowledge that might make your opinion worth a sh!t. :laugh:

When I think of an uninformed civilian pilot with an over-inflated opinion of the demands of his job and no clue about military flying, I think of you.

 

[Fury220]

If I got an immediate for a hard on demand 135 trip in a Lear or a Falcon, I certainly would prefer a 1500 hr civilian who had done all his flying as a civilian, rather than a 1500 hr "TopGun" who got the job because of his military background.
Probably better – that way you’ll have the best chance that the F/O will believe (and put up with) your BS!! By the way, did you really need to start your post talking about your “hard on”?

I need someone who I can tell where we’re going and have him run to the phone file a flight plan with Flight Service without having to break out with the god da_mn charts,,,so that we are ready to start engines in about 8 minutes after he picks up the phone.
Yeah, it’s much more professional to avoid those silly charts and enroute notams – just file what you did last week – I’m sure it will all work out.

I need someone who can quickly and correctly calculate T/O and landing weights and distances by glancing at a card almost instantly. In 135 on-demand freight, T/O and landing distances are computed to the foot.
Almost INSTANTLY!!?? WOW! Most military guys I know have such a hard time with those pesky nu… nub….. numbers. AND – they’re computed to the FOOT!!! The big question is - are the takeoffs and landings FLOWN to the foot?

When was the last time the NAVY or the USAF told you to land on a snow covered un-controlled 5000ft runway in a 26,000lbs jet with no reverse,,, with your only ground resource being "Fred" the fork-lift/ truck driver giving you braking action reports from the radio in his truck?
Uhhh – Never. Not real disappointed about that – Looks good on you, though. Not to mention that with all the USAF and Navy facilities around the world, Fred and his forklift would be extremely over-worked. You keep him – it sound like you need him more. So, what’s the hard part? Deciding to believe Fred? Once you make the decision to land, what is it about flying an approach that is so unique? Fly a great approach, land on speed in the beginning of the touchdown zone and get on the brakes. Something about that is hard? Well, if you say so.

We don’t have 10,000 ft runways all the time or a tail hook to stop us. We don't have the "nylon let-down" either. If we are wrong in our decisions,,,we're fu_cked.
My God! How do you live from day to day with so much riding on you decisions? Do you say a tearful goodbye to your family each day before you go make such decisions? I’m so thankful that I never had to be concerned with the ramifications of my decisions in the military thanks to 10,000’ runways and tail hooks.

I need someone who can work antiquated radar unites. I need someone who can hand fly a jet at high altitudes (370 for the Falcon, 410 for the Lear) with-out an auto-pilot (this is where everyone fails), so we can get up to an altitude where we have a fighting chance of completing the trip without running out of gas (we can't "hook-up" with a tanker in the real world either).
Oh…. Right, I forgot. If a military guy can’t get the altitude he needs or mis-manages his fuel profile, there’s ALWAYS a tanker to pull his nuts out of the fire. They just fly around waiting for us to pork it away and then magically show up to save the day. Other guys have already talked about your amazing ability to hand fly at altitude. Again, If you say it’s hard for you, I can only believe it. Subsonic, Transonic, M1.0, M1.5, M2.0… hand flown from surface to FL500…. For some reason, that was never my biggest challenge.

And before you fighter guys chime in I guarantee you it will take plenty of time for you to hold altitude at 410 in a 20 series Learjet with-out an auto-pilot.
Ooooooooh. The last great challenge in aviation. :laugh:

I need someone who knows how to pick their way thru a thunderstorm without going 150 miles out of the way to get around it.
Who’s in charge of your aircraft, Captain?

I need someone that will keep his cool and won't say dumb sh1t on the radio when something quits working on the aircraft.
Yup. As soon as the SAMs started flying, I encountered a Mig or had an engine fire, the first thing my training taught me to do was key the mike and say something stupid. You mean that’s not right? We’re all so impulsive that way.

These are actual things I encountered while flying out of YIP with ex-military guys. Granted the FO's were new at the time, but they were not ready for the trips, in my opinion.
And everyone knows the cream of the crop is getting out of the military in search of a -135 freight job flying Lear jets out of Michigan.

When I think of flying a single seat fighter with a tail hook, an ejection seat, in-flight refueling capability, and enough power to make the wing an after-thought, I think of relief.
I guess that’s as good as anything else you might think of…. You certainly can’t think of those things with any kind of first hand knowledge that might make your opinion worth a sh!t. :laugh:

When I think of an uninformed civilian pilot with an over-inflated opinion of the demands of his job and no clue about military flying, I think of you.

Beer actually squirted out of my nose.



By the way, I just learned that squirting beer out of your nose will make your eyes water quite a bit. Good night.

 

[Fury220]

Personal experience, thats all. I guess I flew with the "bad apples"

I'm pretty sure you were picked from the same orchard...

 

[Jolly Roger]

Adler, that was some funny stuff. I was sure the cream of the mil crop was heading straight to Michigan to fly with this toolbag.

 

[Laxman]

You know it seems some civ pilots dont understand how much 1500 hrs in a fighter is. Lets just say most of those hours are 1.3 at a time with t/o, mission, landings. Possibly with some 6 hr mission where you t/o, fllew two hours to hit the tanker, fly a mission where you were getting shot at and dropping live bombs, then flying back to the tanker on the way home to PAR mins. Not autopilot and cruising while eating lunch or trying to impress yourself by holding FL410 freehand.

And in the great words of Jeff Foxworthy and friends....JetJock and Willow....He's your sign

 

[WillowRunVortex]

WOW,

Last night after the Fiesta Bowl had a few beers in me and re-read the original post that started this thread (ticked me off) so, I decided to break out with the flame-thrower.

It worked,,,sorry.

I am surprized that your ops manual allows a landing on a 5000 foot snow covered runway with no thrust reverse. You must have great anti-lock brakes.

Kuma

On a serious note though,

Reverse thrust is not calculated into predicated landing distance. It has to be all brakes in the calculated numbers. Reverse is a "bonus". Looks like someone needs to break open a book on the FAR's.

And on most aircraft I've flown it's called anti-skid.

My wifes car has "anti-lock brakes" though.

 

[Kuma]

Haha

That's the first thing that WillowRunVortex has said to make me laugh!



You're absolutley right, I was talking out of my ass. Thanks for the gentle push in the right direction.

Kuma

 

[SUNDOWN]

Wow

The next time we compare ourselves to Doctors, etc. Please submit a reply linking this thread. And to think we all got in this biz for roughly the same reason.

 

[pilotyip]

Illegal Flight?

I need someone who can work antiquated radar unites. I need someone who can hand fly a jet at high altitudes (370 for the Falcon, 410 for the Lear) with-out an auto-pilot (this is where everyone fails), so we can get up to an altitude where we have a fighting chance of completing the trip without running out of gas (we can't "hook-up" with a tanker in the real world either).

Vortex I think it is illegal to fly at those altitudes without an autopilot.