Whats up with civi pilots?

[ePilot22]

Are we reading the same thing?

...it's not really germane to what this thread has degenerated to.

Yeah, this thread really started out well! If hooker23 had approached his issue with respect instead of acting like a child and insulting people, maybe this thread would be much better?!

Talk about "painting with broad strokes", isn't that exaclty what HE did with his first post? The rest of the thread just followed his lead.

Maybe when he shows some RESPECT, he and his thread will get some in return.

Any points after his post that try and support him are invalid because first you must assume that all civilian pilots are "pu$$ies" that don't want to work and complain all the time. Since that was the original point here all it takes is ONE civilian pilot to prove him wrong and I'm willing to bet there's at least one!

There is no issue here about MIL vs. CIL. Just hooker23's disrespect and unprofessionalism towards fellow pilots.

Hooker23, why don't you address your ATTITUDE first and not worry about what other pilots say, do and feel? Try growing up and ACTING LIKE THE PROFESSIONAL YOU CLAIM TO BE! I'm sure a REAL professional would have found a better way to express their thoughts and opinions.


eP.

 

[ePilot22]

Sense or cents?

I expect to have to work at a job, not get paid to fly a few hours.

Really? And your next thought right after that was...

I can't see a reason to get out when I would take a 30K pay cut and have to work more than I do now with a bunch of complainers and bitch artists. I can do that in the military for a lot more pay.

Hmmm...? Funny too. Your last sentence seems to imply that you get paid to work with a "bunch of complainers and biatch artists" in the military as well.

Can you explain this to me?


eP.

 

[Turbinehead]

Silly

. Are most civilian pilots a bunch of whining pussies? Or is it just the pilots on the various forums?

Make up your mind how you want to ask the question, you thilly thavage.

Eww you are gross.

We might be a bunch of whining pussies, but at least we know how to fly with living creatures on board. No, we dont blow sh!t up for a living, but we do make people smile. Do you know how to do that you beatht?

Muhahahahahaaa

Naw, stay in pardner. Do yourself and us lowly civy whiny poozzie pilots a favor. Dont make us have to teach another military jock how to fly in the real world. Itsa lotta work and we dont get paid enough to risk our carcasses while you learn to ....lets see....takeoff nicely, fly smoothly and flare below 100 feet. Stay. Sit Beg.

Where did that smoke go?

 

[AdlerDriver]

Yeah, this thread really started out well! If hooker23 had approached his issue with respect instead of acting like a child and insulting people, maybe this thread would be much better?! eP.

You are exactly right. This has gone on so long I forgot what started it. Usually these threads at least start with something valid and degenerate from there..... hence my comment. This time it was BS to start with and I forgot that. Sorry.

 

[BluDevAv8r]

RoL, I'm sorry you don't like my postings and think I'm "Chest beating". Please look at my other posts and you'll see that I am generally pretty mild and not a pot-stirrer. My earlier postings in this beat-up thread almost all have an addition/addendum, basically saying "Sorry guys, bad mood this morning, etc".

When a guy earlier says that fighter pilot skills don't "translate" to a 737, Adler made a sound response, and I attempted to back him. I've consistently maintained that there are challenges in all types of flying.

Mongo is the fighter-world's equivalent of "The Duke". I am not Mongo, but I tried to be and honor his vast skill. All decent fighter pilots to some degree have his abilities to do the multitasking as described. Fighter pilot stuff translates better to the abnormal/emergency civilian environment rather than daily ops.

Where in my posts am I denigrating excellent pilots with civilian backgrounds? Am I saying that a great civ. pilot cannot do what Mongo does with apparent ease? No. But not all of them can. Likewise, I cannot perform certain civilian evolutions as well as some exceptional civilian guys.

There are two camps in this fight. One is those of us with the experience in both worlds. I count myself among them. The other is a more ascerbic and bitter camp without experience in both, who have posted slams that simply aren't true.

Maybe you are looking at this quote: "Mongo dominates and leads the entire local war in a physical environment that would leave 99.99% of the U.S. population unconscious, puking, or both." This is simply the truth, and is what would happen if you grabbed the average Joe off the street and stuck him in the back seat of Mongo's tub. It is my attempt at describing the physical reality of a fighter cockpit in a heavy engagement. I still have pain and health problems 15 years later from my days in a fighter.

Gorilla,

Is this the same Mongo that is bio'd in Wings of Fury by Robert Wilcox? If so, quite an impressive write-up on him. Also had a chapter on Dale "Snort" Snodgrass. I had the pleasure of meeting and flying with him (in his Super Decathalon) and the chapter was spot on about him and his personality.

-Neal

 

[Gorilla]

Hi Neal, I've not read Wings of Fury, but I will soon... Amazon has a number of them, used, from $1.00 each!

I'd bet it is the same guy. At the time I entered the 58th as a noob, Mongo was a young and pretty new Target Arm with a well-deserved reputation. He was one of the rarer individuals with not only vast skills in the air, but an ability to teach as well, and that was the job of Fighter Weapons School graduates, to return from Nellis and pass on the knowledge they gained.

Mongo was a G-monster. He could key the mike at ~9G and sound like a laid-back dude from Cleveland Center as he directed flights of aircraft in the immediate vicinity towards or away from nearby airborne threats, while simultaneously dispatching his opponents one by one.

Back on topic... I have to agree with ePilot22. The original post was just wrong. Here's some stuff I've learned over the years from talented, civilian-only pilots, in my world of pax aircraft:

1) There is NO MISSION beyond the safety of this aircraft and the people on it. Lose the "Must accomplish the mission at all costs" mentality from the AF... it's dangerous.

2) The crew and by extension, the passengers, must be treated with dignity and respect, and cannot be B-slapped into submission when they do something you don't like.

3) Management is not the U.S. Govt, and occasionally "orders" from above MUST be disobeyed for the safety and well being of the crew.

I'm sure there are many others, but there is a definite mental shift and certain CRM aspects that must be completely re-learned.

 

[Laxman]

"Naw, stay in pardner. Do yourself and us lowly civy whiny poozzie pilots a favor. Dont make us have to teach another military jock how to fly in the real world. Itsa lotta work and we dont get paid enough to risk our carcasses while you learn to ....lets see....takeoff nicely, fly smoothly and flare below 100 feet. Stay. Sit Beg."

LOL, now THAT is funny

 

[SIG600]

We might be a bunch of whining pussies, but at least we know how to fly with living creatures on board. No, we dont blow sh!t up for a living, but we do make people smile. Do you know how to do that you beatht?

HA! Whens the last time you saw an airport of smiling happy people standing around going "Man that was a great flight!" Get real... it's mass transit. Why don't you tell a C-17 pilot dropping food over Afghanistan, or a C-5 bringing troops home that you're the only one that can make people smile. The idea of people being happy to take a commercial flight is just funny.

Naw, stay in pardner. Do yourself and us lowly civy whiny poozzie pilots a favor. Dont make us have to teach another military jock how to fly in the real world. Itsa lotta work and we dont get paid enough to risk our carcasses while you learn to ....lets see....takeoff nicely, fly smoothly and flare below 100 feet. Stay. Sit Beg.

Ya dude... try being single seat and managing radar, weapons, keeping sa, talking to 30 other people, running your pod, etc etc etc... I was a commercial pilot prior to joining the Navy, you're not fooling anyone here. Takeoff nicely? WTF is that? Push the power up and rotate. Fly smoothly? Whens the last time you hand flew an entire flight? Flare? Oh my god we're getting technical! Why don't you try finding the boat on a dark night, then getting aboard. Any monkey can run an autopilot and FMS, and take vectors to final. Flying in the real world? We fly in the same airspace you do, more that you can't, and airspace you'll never see.


I think what this thread proves is no matter who signs your paycheck, the gov't or an airline, it's in a pilots nature to bitch. If we're not complaining about something, we're not happy.

 

[Snoop]

Well, hooker

I have the solution...Get a single pilot job, let your employer know you are more than willing to take a pissant salary of nothing, and smile as you tuck in your white silk scarf, tighten down your faded leather flying cap and fly in dilapidated junkers....And don't forget to wave to those who are flying our asses off and not whining, just fighting to get better wages, better treatment, better quality of living and finally, better attitudes for assholes like you who willingly take those crap wages and work conditions, giving employers the impetus to drive wages even lower.... So that in the near future, my neighbor, who manages a Burger King, can spot me a few bucks while I float bad checks and warm up a tin of cat food for dinner, telling my daughter that the guy flying those nice, shiny jets was the one who did take $14.95 an hour to fly a jet, and Daddy wouldn't stoop that low.....I guess it is better to sell out now...Lest you look bad in the eyes of those who won't when you get hired.

 

[guppygoshawk]

Ya dude... try being single seat and managing radar, weapons, keeping sa, talking to 30 other people, running your pod, etc etc etc... I was a commercial pilot prior to joining the Navy, you're not fooling anyone here. Takeoff nicely? WTF is that? Push the power up and rotate. Fly smoothly? Whens the last time you hand flew an entire flight? Flare? Oh my god we're getting technical! Why don't you try finding the boat on a dark night, then getting aboard. Any monkey can run an autopilot and FMS, and take vectors to final. Flying in the real world? We fly in the same airspace you do, more that you can't, and airspace you'll never see.

.

Why don't you keep you trap shut until you've actually done any of those things. You have ZERO exrpeience doing any of those things. Quit trying to sound like a badass. By the way, I think they're waiting for you to show up at the RAG. Have fun on your first flight in a grey jet.