What's the problem with GJ?!?!

[Terry Hunter]

... If TSH did not exist in 2003, and was therefore not a threat to TSA ALPA, how honest is it to fault the union leadership and pilot group for failing to protect themselves against an unknown entity?

If I am wrong and TSH *did* in fact exist in 2000 (or 2003) and the MEC failed to secure Holding Company flying, then yes there is some blame for them to bear. If TSH didn't exist then, one can't reasonably fault the union for failing to protect against a threat (holding company) that didn't exist.

I see what your saying, but a rock-solid scope is protected by buy-outs, mergers or acquistions for the future after a contract is signed. I am not exactly sure, but I believe "successorship" is the section that comes into play for preserving the scope for the chance that your company is bought by another.

 

[fuelflow]

TSAH was created in 1998. Their annual filings can be found at MO's Dept of Commerce website. I'll link it for anyone who needs it.The contract extension was ratified in the Spring of 2003, AFTER the Mesa/Freedom debacle and their winter 2002/03 (I believe) contract. Most of the TSA guys who came to GJ, did so due to a loss of confidence with their union leadership (and continue to do so).Hulas did indeed own United Feeder Service, which flew BAE ATP's for United, as a separate entity from Trans States Airlines, Inc. They were represented by the Teamsters as well. Several of their pilots are back at GJ.This problem was created by the TSA MEC, and now they want to wage a war to cover their own mistakes. Even if they win the Single Carrier petition with the NMB (though unlikely), GJ pilots will still be on a separate seniority list with a separate CBA.These are just the facts. I know several of you disagree for one reason or another, but you should know the facts surrounding this case.

 

[waterski]

KEEP DRINKING KOOL-AID

 

[purduedchi]

Fuel Flow,
You seem to show the most arrogance out of anyone on this board, or any other for that matter. In all honesty, if the pilots at TSA had not signed that contract extension, then there would have been no, I repeat NO, United Express flying. United did not even want to talk to us knowing that we would begin labor negotiations in a year or two. They wanted a company that was more stable from a labor perspective, and we were able to do that in order help this company grow. Now that is a fact. It is because of our sacrifice that GJ had the opportunity to get off the ground. You talk of our MEC as the only cause for the TSA pilots problems. I'll admit, I do not agree with them 100% of the time. I do know however that are working to come up with a viable solution to help both sides out. Nothing that we have asked for has been too much. It's more that TSA Management hates our union leadership with a passion and would do anything and everything to make them look bad. The reason that they hate them, because they stand up for us and win. I honestly can not remember the last time we lost an arbitration. Now I know you think GJ will be different; it will be one of the best company's to work for in the industry right? Well do me a favor...post your payscales...from year one on up, FO's and CA's. Then do me another favor and post all of your work rules...all the stuff about 5 day trips and so on. You want to talk about the facts, kind of hard to do when you don't lay everything aout about your company(I mean, what should be our - TSA's - company). People have repeatedly asked you for this info, and you keep beating around the bush. So let's have it for once. Furthermore, is the rumor true that your negotiating chairperson, DT, has stepped aside. I wonder why if it is indeed true. Maybe the management isn't so different after all.

 

[TSA145]

TSAH was created in 1998. Their annual filings can be found at MO's Dept of Commerce website. I'll link it for anyone who needs it.The contract extension was ratified in the Spring of 2003, AFTER the Mesa/Freedom debacle and their winter 2002/03 (I believe) contract. Most of the TSA guys who came to GJ, did so due to a loss of confidence with their union leadership (and continue to do so).Hulas did indeed own United Feeder Service, which flew BAE ATP's for United, as a separate entity from Trans States Airlines, Inc. They were represented by the Teamsters as well. Several of their pilots are back at GJ.This problem was created by the TSA MEC, and now they want to wage a war to cover their own mistakes. Even if they win the Single Carrier petition with the NMB (though unlikely), GJ pilots will still be on a separate seniority list with a separate CBA.These are just the facts. I know several of you disagree for one reason or another, but you should know the facts surrounding this case.

So Hulas is the solution for not a trusting a union official who gets elected by the majority of the pilot group?????? Holy crap Fat Bastard, HK must pay you really a lot of cash....

 

[tjsatter]

Furthermore TSH was created (possibly) for contingencies associated with the (then) upcoming contract talks. They did not need it and it languished doing nothing, no activity, no interest. In fact the incoporation of TSH was revoked for non-payment of the nominal fee ($30 +/-?) to the state of Mo. so the TSH entity ceased to exist for a couple years. Then when they discovered they might need it after all they payed up the back fees and re-activated it. While FF is technically correct on some hyper-minute legals points he leaves out relevant details. For all pratical puposes TSH was not a consideration until this year. If you are gonna throw out facts, throw out all facts and relevant context

Also there is no CBA at GJ. No C, No B, and No A now or anytime in the forseeable future. There are no contract talks with Teamsters, ALPA, The Ladies Garment workers or any ther collective bargaining unit now or any time forseeable. Pilots there are employed at the will of the company, a very tenous prospect in the best of times. Any day could be there last.

 

[h25b]

Pilots there are employed at the will of the company, a very tenous prospect in the best of times. Any day could be there last.

One way or the other, EVERYONE is ultimately employed at the will of their company... Just ask the NWA mechanics...

 

[fuelflow]

Year0-1 $56.001-2 $58.002-3 $60.00etc etc, $2.00 bump per yearThis is company proposed, as there has not been a TA yet for compensation.Hours of Service section has been TA'd with 11-12 days off, 4 day trip maximum. The union has allowed 5 day trips approved on a monthly basis if it meets certain criteria. November lines vary from 11-15 days off for line holders flying 5 aircraft.Until the CBA is approved, the company can do what it wants - we all know that. That's why 95% of the pilots have filled out authorization cards for representation.

 

[fuelflow]

I expect negotiations to begin again after the Single Carrier issue is resolved, either with the IBT or ALPA, depending on who wins. I am also not aware of any resignations in the union.And yes, we ARE voluntarily represented by the IBT until the NMB rules on SC.

 

[Terry Hunter]

Now I'm confused...
Does TSA (not talking GJ) do any flying for United, or is it all AA?
Thanks in advance.

Never mind - I found it on the TSA website. So, this GJ deal was done to circunaviagate the ASA language TSA has with American...

 

[SkyBoy1981]

Year0-1 $56.001-2 $58.002-3 $60.00etc etc, $2.00 bump per yearThis is company proposed, as there has not been a TA yet for compensation.Hours of Service section has been TA'd with 11-12 days off, 4 day trip maximum. The union has allowed 5 day trips approved on a monthly basis if it meets certain criteria. November lines vary from 11-15 days off for line holders flying 5 aircraft.Until the CBA is approved, the company can do what it wants - we all know that. That's why 95% of the pilots have filled out authorization cards for representation.

The real question is...are you getting paid only block time?

 

[incubus]

what's tsa's 145 pay rates? block or better?

 

[TSA Pilot]

Go ahead and fool yourself all you want.

But lets send Horizon, Skywest, Comair and G0Jet all out on the same routes through Chicago, IAD and Denver. For 80 hours of scheduled flying and see who has the bigger paycheck at the end of the month. g0jet will be at the bottom every single time. It doesnt matter what your hourly rate is, the deciding factor is you guys get paid CREDIT TIME. That means on the normal 3 hour delay into chicago (with holding) you still get paid 1:30 (for example from Tulsa or wherever) You will never make more than those guys... EVER.

The union has allowed 5 day trips approved on a monthly basis if it meets certain criteria.

This line cracks me up. Without a CURRENT signed contract, your union has not "allowed" anything. They can do whatever they want no matter what you say. Yeah you guys will be flying 5 day trips with 2 days off for a long time to come, dont think for one minute that Hulas will be rushing to change that, he will drag his feet in negotiations for years. It took us 2 years to negotiate our last contract.

Have fun....

 

[TSA145]

what's tsa's 145 pay rates? block or better?

For payrates visit www.airlinecentral.com and TSA does have block or better; GoSh1t only block.

 

[tjsatter]

your union has not "allowed" anything.

There is NO union at GJ. NONE. NOTHING. There is NObody negotiating anything between the GJ pilots and company. It is all at the whim of TSH. No union to allow/disallow anything. And they want Teamsters because IBT is a bunch of pusssies. If 95% of the pilots prefer a company sponsored and endorsed union they are even bigger cumbags and dumshites than alleged by the most vocal critic.

tj