What's the dumbest thing a crew has ever asked or requested?

[405]

You mean I might actually have a point, and I might have run into one of those "bad dispatchers" you mention?

You have a point. The difference is that we (dispatchers) don't think we're always right like your type does. It's hard for some people like yourself to admit you're wrong.

You blamed me! You think I have a chip on my shoulder, or a "thing" against dispatchers. Which is it? Was it one of your bad dispatchers...or totally my fault?

I will continue to consider you as part of the chain of events. Sorry. Check your Jepps before you depart. It's that easy. We don't catch everything and neither do you. That's why we (in your case are supposed to) crosscheck each other, pro.

Is it possible I am a professional, and you are forming an incorrect opinion on my professionalism based on a single anecdote posted on a Forum?

Yes, that is possible. However based on your past posts I will back my comments on post #95.

Nah! You don't like my attitude, so I must be a jerk.

Yep, concur there. You definitely stink of the arrogant, "I'm-never-wrong" pilot.

I don't have "issues" with our dispatchers.

Yeah, you do. You said you did in an earlier post.

I make it a habit to double-check as much as possible on each release.

Congratulations, Razor. You're almost a part of the team. It'll take some time but you'll get there.

This guy on flightinfo said there are bad dispatchers out there and told me I should have caught this major boo boo on a release I got 11-years ago. Normally I'd trust all dispatchers, but ol' 405 says there's bad ones who need me to find their mistakes. (In an earlier post I asked him to tell me which areas I should check, and which I should trust 100% on every release...but he refused to respond to that...)

No, I didn't respond to that stupid request. You know what to check don't you? You're a professional pilot, right? Other pilots may check more than you do so don't blame us when you miss something. Essentially that's what you're doing here.

 

[405]

Razor, I'm done. Let the thread get back to the original subject.

 

[Occam's Razor]

Razor, I'm done. Let the thread get back to the original subject.

'Kay. The topic is the ever-popular, sure-to-build-a-good-team, " What's the dumbest thing a crew has ever asked or requested?"

[Note: No mistakes made by dispatchers should be made in this thread!]

 

[405]

'Kay. The topic is the ever-popular, sure-to-build-a-good-team, " What's the dumbest thing a crew has ever asked or requested?"

[Note: No mistakes made by dispatchers should be made in this thread!]

Where's your sense of humor, Razor? C'mon. Lighten up, man.

Pilots never make mistakes. Dispatchers are to blame most of the time. I disagree with that. We agree there, right?

Okay, good. Now...

Please share how your airline builds a "good team concept" between dispatchers and pilots. I'm asking this seriously.

 

[Occam's Razor]

Where's your sense of humor, Razor?

Dang. I don't know. It was here a minute ago...

Pilots never make mistakes. Dispatchers are to blame most of the time. I disagree with that. We agree there, right?

Nah. You're not reading for comprehension. I've posted that I make a LOT of mistakes. I depend on others to catch them. Sometimes, after we've been through an experience where a mistake was caught, we share it as an amusing anecdote. We trust that those hearing it won't get their undies in a bundle reading about how somebody else caught the mistake, and learned an important lesson in the process. We hope they don't take it as a professional slam. I know I don't...which is good, cuz I've made thousands of mistakes while doing my job.

Here's an un-PC thing to write...but it is a cold, hard fact: The pilots operating the flight are executing the mission, and all others are "support". That's not a slight at anyone, or any profession. It's just the way it is.

When I flew in the Marines, that role was reversed. The pilots are just a single element of the the combined arms operation that supports the Marine rifleman on the ground. We can shoot down all the MiGs in the sky and have the greenest "greenie board" in the Air Wing, but until the 19-year old LCpl on the ground takes the hill, all our efforts are focused on him. I was very comfortable with my place in that "pecking order" and considered it a privilege to play a part in his mission.

Dispatchers, schedulers, rampers, mechanics, etc are there to help the pilots execute the mission. The FAR's even spell that relationship out in clear, unambiguous language. The PIC is allowed to deviate from any FAR to prevent something icky happening to the passengers or aircraft. I'm not familiar with a similar FAR regarding dispatchers, mechanics, (both of whom are also FAA certificated), or rampers that allow such unfettered discretion.

Please share how your airline builds a "good team concept" between dispatchers and pilots. I'm asking this seriously.

They don't, and I think that's one of the reasons they are spectacular losers. I think every new-hire pilot should have to "plug in" with Dispatch for a "push" to see what is going on, and get a touch - see - hear idea of what resources are available to him/her. It'd be nice if pilots had a clue of how busy the SOC gets whenever wx crumps a hub, and 100 flights are all barking for some direction from Dispatch...but I'd settle for just of taste of ops during a hub bank.

I also think all new captains should have to observe a "push" in Approach Control at one of our hubs. I think that would be an eye-opener too.

In 1993, when our brilliant management moved our SOC away from the airport (where pilots congregate during "productivity breaks") we lost the personal contact we had with the Planners, Meteorologists (we still have those), Schedulers, and Dispatchers. Now those folks are just a voice, or plain green text on an ACARS screen.

If I was the Emperor of the World (and how come I'm not?), I'd conduct Annual Refresher Training with all Operations department folks together. I'd run simulations to watch how they all integrate, then de-brief their performance. But that would cost money...

Can't have that!

 

[10early?]

Razor, if you still had the Corps in your blood, you'd just follow orders and "take that airport" hehehehehehehe. Not really, just kidding. I know you guys take that Marine stuff seriously. On a lighter note, can't we all just get along? Remember, there's always some regional guy that'll take your flight, but not that many out there that are stupid enough to dispatch 50 or 60 flights a day (I'm one of them). In the case about HPN, both pilot and dispatcher were at fault, and the cross-check system failed. Luckily, nothing got bent and no-one got hurt. I agree about observation, though..... the "Big Picture" is hard to explain to someone in another room. Heck, it's hard to understand when you're right in front of it and you are the one 'painting' it (I'm all for paint-by-numbers). As a part-time crew-dog myself, I know what it's like to have a long crew duty day and still try and make sense of some arcane b*s plate or paperwork. It's nice to have someone looking out for you, but it's like a gun.... never assume it's safe, because it might kill you. I never assume that the pilot knows everything I do about a certain flight, and he should never assume I know all HE (or she) does about it, either. We're all part of the same team, or so I'm told.
Let's start a separate thread entitled "What's the dumbest thing a dispatcher has ever done to you......"

 

[SKC]

You're more than welcome to, in the appropriate forum.

 

[Morning Wood]

Kack,

You should tell the story about the FA that called you expressing his concern about unpressurized flight.

Anywho, I had a FA call me last night demanding that I swap her deadhead flight to another aircraft, because she was tired of waiting for her aircraft to arrive. She couldn't grasp the concept that aircraft are routed to certain places for operational purposes and she continued to complain that she had plans and that she was going to miss out if I didn't do this swap. When i told her no she flipped the hell out and started blaming me for ruining her plans. WTFO?

I can beat that. RNO closed one afternoon about 1p due to a blizzard. I had the crew repo the plane from SJC to SLC so they'd be in position for the next morning. The F/A called me to complain that she bid RNO overnights to work a second job and demanded that I get her to RNO.

 

[Morning Wood]

Dispatchers, schedulers, rampers, mechanics, etc are there to help the pilots execute the mission. The FAR's even spell that relationship out in clear, unambiguous language. The PIC is allowed to deviate from any FAR to prevent something icky happening to the passengers or aircraft. I'm not familiar with a similar FAR regarding dispatchers, mechanics, (both of whom are also FAA certificated), or rampers that allow such unfettered discretion.



They don't, and I think that's one of the reasons they are spectacular losers. I think every new-hire pilot should have to "plug in" with Dispatch for a "push" to see what is going on, and get a touch - see - hear idea of what resources are available to him/her. It'd be nice if pilots had a clue of how busy the SOC gets whenever wx crumps a hub, and 100 flights are all barking for some direction from Dispatch...but I'd settle for just of taste of ops during a hub bank.

I also think all new captains should have to observe a "push" in Approach Control at one of our hubs. I think that would be an eye-opener too.

In 1993, when our brilliant management moved our SOC away from the airport (where pilots congregate during "productivity breaks") we lost the personal contact we had with the Planners, Meteorologists (we still have those), Schedulers, and Dispatchers. Now those folks are just a voice, or plain green text on an ACARS screen.

With moving SOC's away from the airport and all the massive hiring, everyone has become so disconnected with what each other does it's not funny. Not having any training or recurrent in the same city as the SOC has not helped either. There's no understanding or respect for anyone anymore. I hear a lot of phone calls where people on both sides of the conversation are so far out of line, I'm embarassed. Just do the job. It's not necessary to constantly be looking for people's mistakes and then tell the whole world about it. Just take care of what you need to and move on. It isn't that hard, but some of you (both pilots and dispatchers) sure make it more difficult than it needs to be.

 

[ShutupandFly]

Dispatchers, schedulers, rampers, mechanics, etc are there to help the pilots execute the mission. The FAR's even spell that relationship out in clear, unambiguous language. The PIC is allowed to deviate from any FAR to prevent something icky happening to the passengers or aircraft. I'm not familiar with a similar FAR regarding dispatchers, mechanics, (both of whom are also FAA certificated), or rampers that allow such unfettered discretion.

Feeling a little self important today?
FAR 121.557 (b)

(b) In an emergency situation arising during flight that requires immediate decision and action by an aircraft dispatcher, and that is known to him, the aircraft dispatcher shall advise the pilot in command of the emergency, shall ascertain the decision of the pilot in command, and shall have the decision recorded. If the aircraft dispatcher cannot communicate with the pilot, he shall declare an emergency and take any action that he considers necessary under the circumstances.