"What's next now for AA/US possible merger'

[ALGFLYR]

Isn't this where history and law aren't on USAPA's side? I don't know of a single case where a change of representation released the new representation from the obligations of the previous. Do the USAPA paid lawyers have backing or are these new arguments?

The representational change didn't release USAPA from the obligations left from ALPA. Both ALPA contracts are still in place and legally binding on the pilot groups and the company. The Transition Agreement (TA) is still a legal document that governs how the East and West pilot groups and contracts will be combined. The TA also governs how the 2 seniority lists will be combined once the two groups combine into one group under US Airways. That is defined under a very specific set of circumstances that must happen between the two groups and US Airways management. Those conditions will never be realized if a merger occurs with American.

 

[General Lee]

Loser? Really GL? I challenge you to find any post I have ever posted that I resorted to name calling. I welcome participating in a civilized debate and will engage in such until it becomes a childish bout of name calling and the like.

To me it seems that if an argument is presented and the best someone can come back with is calling names and trying to pull someone down to that level, the name caller is either uneducated about the subject matter, or knows he is wrong and resorts to calling someone names in a childish fashion to make themselves feel better... Either way, I suppose I shall go back into lurking mode...

Look, you can TRY to rationalize it all you want, but your group "pulled a fast one" on your other side, after you both signed up for BINDING arbitration. Your GROUP voted out ALPA because of the BINDING AWARD, all because you didn't like the outcome. That reflects poorly ON YOUR WHOLE GROUP. We all know it, and so do you. So, I am looking forward to restitution for the West side. Really, you guys screwed up. Didn't Sulley talk about integrity? You guys lost it when you didn't HONOR what you agreed to in the first place. There you go, no name calling. But, the truth.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Isn't this where history and law aren't on USAPA's side? I don't know of a single case where a change of representation released the new representation from the obligations of the previous. Do the USAPA paid lawyers have backing or are these new arguments?

The Easties are saying "I divorced Sally, but because I just married Wendy I still can drive Sally's truck that I lost in the divorce settlement....."


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Whataburger]

...about integrity? You guys lost it But, the truth...



Bye Bye---General Lee

Integrity? The kind when you tell someone you will pay them $1 for a widget, and they let you have the widget. Then, you only pay them $.20 for the widget when the bills come due??

 

[Bad-Andy]

The Easties are saying "I divorced Sally, but because I just married Wendy I still can drive Sally's truck that I lost in the divorce settlement....."


Bye Bye---General Lee

Actually, Gen Lee, you're a little off on your analogy here. It would be more akin to "I was engaged to Sally, but we never set a date and walked down the aisle. But, we did buy a house together -- both signed the mortgage papers. Now I want to live in the house because Wendy and I are getting married..."

Still a moral wrong (to want the house without paying), but since it was only an engagement, not a marriage (never finalized the agreement), not necessarily a legal wrong (yet). We have to wait for the court to decide -- can we get the house and is SALLY SOL? Or do we owe Sally for her half of the house?

Hopefully it will be decided tomorrow (but I'm not holding my breath...).

 

[General Lee]

Integrity? The kind when you tell someone you will pay them $1 for a widget, and they let you have the widget. Then, you only pay them $.20 for the widget when the bills come due??

Look Stalin, everyone and any company can go BK, that's legal. Trying to dodge a binding award, that isn't. Good try. You probably will go personal BK yourself someday, so get back to us and tell us how it went. Btw, you guys also treated your AT brothers like poop, so I can kinda see how you might not think its a big deal. Makes sense now. Enjoy your stagnation.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Actually, Gen Lee, you're a little off on your analogy here. It would be more akin to "I was engaged to Sally, but we never set a date and walked down the aisle. But, we did buy a house together -- both signed the mortgage papers. Now I want to live in the house because Wendy and I are getting married..."

Still a moral wrong (to want the house without paying), but since it was only an engagement, not a marriage (never finalized the agreement), not necessarily a legal wrong (yet). We have to wait for the court to decide -- can we get the house and is SALLY SOL? Or do we owe Sally for her half of the house?

Hopefully it will be decided tomorrow (but I'm not holding my breath...).

That might be a better analogy, but your group did accept the binding agreement prior to the award. Your MEC chair signed the papers for you. You all agreed on the arbitrator. Because you didn't agree with the award, the union was kicked out as an end around to the award. That is just plain dirty. I hope it is decided tomorrow, but if this act of denying an award is allowed, all arbitration in the future will be in question, because everyone will be allowed to find an end around to avoid it.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Whataburger]

You probably will go personal BK yourself someday,



Bye Bye---General Lee

huh? what?

 

[Bad-Andy]

That might be a better analogy, but your group did accept the binding agreement prior to the award. Your MEC chair signed the papers for you. You all agreed on the arbitrator. Because you didn't agree with the award, the union was kicked out as an end around to the award. That is just plain dirty. I hope it is decided tomorrow, but if this act of denying an award is allowed, all arbitration in the future will be in question, because everyone will be allowed to find an end around to avoid it.


Bye Bye---General Lee

I agree. I was just pointing out that the loophole that is being exploited (or attempted to be exploited) is that the deal was never finalized -- i.e. a JCBA as required by the Transition Agreement. I'm not arguing that its right, just that it exists...

 

[The Drizzle]

The representational change didn't release USAPA from the obligations left from ALPA. Both ALPA contracts are still in place and legally binding on the pilot groups and the company. The Transition Agreement (TA) is still a legal document that governs how the East and West pilot groups and contracts will be combined. The TA also governs how the 2 seniority lists will be combined once the two groups combine into one group under US Airways. That is defined under a very specific set of circumstances that must happen between the two groups and US Airways management. Those conditions will never be realized if a merger occurs with American.

I see. That's a hell of a tightrope.

 

[Flopgut]

Integrity? The kind when you tell someone you will pay them $1 for a widget, and they let you have the widget. Then, you only pay them $.20 for the widget when the bills come due??

"Great customer service cannot overcome high costs" Herb Kelleher TexasMonthly

The pendulum is starting back the other way.

 

[Holy Shiite]

huh? what?

Guys, don't waste your time with this poser. He is probably being paid to stir up the pot on these forums.

 

[charlie2]

"pulled a fast one" on your other side,

Bye Bye---General Lee

Actually Private Lee we pulled a "slow one" and if Ms. Silver finally makes up her mind (she's pulling a slow one too) and her decision is that the ex-con, chug-a-lug dougweiser Parker (I hope we can someday get a non-drunk as a CEO) can't negotiate with unions then we will appeal. Then after a two or three year appeal we will then vote no to any contract that contains a violation of ALPA merger policy (the nic). You AWA guys are smarter than us. You win. Ha ha ha ha.

 

[charlie2]

That might be a better analogy, but your group did accept the binding agreement prior to the award. Your MEC chair signed the papers for you. You all agreed on the arbitrator. Because you didn't agree with the award, the union was kicked out as an end around to the award. That is just plain dirty. I hope it is decided tomorrow, but if this act of denying an award is allowed, all arbitration in the future will be in question, because everyone will be allowed to find an end around to avoid it.


Bye Bye---General Lee

Private Lee this is business. It isn't personel so don't take it as such. There is no integrity in business at all. I own a business and you good folk from the south will screw me in a second if I let you so grow up. You must have been an "employee" your whole life but if you ever try to run a business you need to grow a spine. Our ex-con ceo has a spine and will use it against us no matter how missy silver decides if she will ever make a decision. Dirty? Are you for real? The airline business has always been "clean".

 

[General Lee]

Private Lee this is business. It isn't personel so don't take it as such. There is no integrity in business at all. I own a business and you good folk from the south will screw me in a second if I let you so grow up. You must have been an "employee" your whole life but if you ever try to run a business you need to grow a spine. Our ex-con ceo has a spine and will use it against us no matter how missy silver decides if she will ever make a decision. Dirty? Are you for real? The airline business has always been "clean".

GROW UP? Look who is talking. Those same arbitrators also do salary disputes for NFL players and teams. If the team doesn't like the award, do they just not pay? NO, they pay up. You guys decided to play ball, but walk away like complete sore losers because you didn't like the decision. You need to grow up. LOOOZERS. I can't wait to see what the APA would do with you guys if another SLI came up. Your guy would say "Come on, THIS TIME WE WILL PLAY BY THE RULES......." Riiiiiight.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Actually Private Lee we pulled a "slow one" and if Ms. Silver finally makes up her mind (she's pulling a slow one too) and her decision is that the ex-con, chug-a-lug dougweiser Parker (I hope we can someday get a non-drunk as a CEO) can't negotiate with unions then we will appeal. Then after a two or three year appeal we will then vote no to any contract that contains a violation of ALPA merger policy (the nic). You AWA guys are smarter than us. You win. Ha ha ha ha.

Thank GAWD I am not at USAir, your combo is a train wreck. And it looks like any combo with AA would also result in the same. Your career has already tanked, and it's about to get worse. I do win, I make more than most of your Captains as an FO. I do have friends at AWA, and eventually as you old guys retire in the East, they will win too. Keep holding out for the arbitrated award, and hit your earning potential, in your last few years. Real smart Grandpa!


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[MCDU]

West got spanked. Private Poser has no credibilty except with the PFT generation.
M

 

[charlie2]

GROW UP? Look who is talking. Those same arbitrators also do salary disputes for NFL players and teams. If the team doesn't like the award, do they just not pay? NO, they pay up. You guys decided to play ball, but walk away like complete sore losers because you didn't like the decision. You need to grow up. LOOOZERS. I can't wait to see what the APA would do with you guys if another SLI came up. Your guy would say "Come on, THIS TIME WE WILL PLAY BY THE RULES......." Riiiiiight.


Bye Bye---General Lee

So if you pay a crap load of money to a union you say it's a gamble? Craps...Roulette? You get NOTHING for your dues? I thought WRONGLY that my dues money got me a little protection...ooooppps. I respect NFL players as much as my ex-con ceo.

 

[General Lee]

West got spanked. Private Poser has no credibilty except with the PFT generation.
M

Was the NIC award thrown out? No? Then it will follow the group. It may take awhile to be implemented, but it wasn't thrown out. Looks like your union can still negotiate, but if the company uses a seniority list other than the NIC award, then they will be free to sue. Overall, your airline LOSES, including YOU.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

So if you pay a crap load of money to a union you say it's a gamble? Craps...Roulette? You get NOTHING for your dues? I thought WRONGLY that my dues money got me a little protection...ooooppps. I respect NFL players as much as my ex-con ceo.

YOUR GUY at the Union decided it was fair to allow Nicelau to do the arbitration. He speaks for you. You elected him. TOO BAD. When someone signs up for something, especially something BINDING, you do it. You didn't have to do it initially, but YOUR GUY signed you up for it. You as a group LOST. Then, you didn't like the award, so like wheenies you tried to avoid it, while everyone was watching. I guess you also don't respect arbitrators apparently, and the APA I'm sure has taken notice. Your group is not trustworthy at all.....and is the laughing stock of the industry.


Bye Bye---General Lee