"What's next now for AA/US possible merger'

[charlie2]

Ummmmmm, NO. I think it would be considered "ripe" if the AWA guys lost out on seniority in a SLI between the APA and USAPA. Maybe you also believe that you can drive that truck that was taken from you in the divorce settlement with your Ex Wife. Riiiiight. You Easties are unbelievable. You continue to try to brush the NIC award under the door, pretending it NEVER happened. Everyone can see you! Maybe you can negotiate this time with the APA, and just tell them THIS TIME YOU WILL PLAY BY THE RULES, unlike LAST TIME..... Last time was just practice, this time with the APA WILL BE FOR REAL.....


Bye Bye---General Lee

Pvt. Lee the "rules" say the list is used when AWA and US Stupidways ratify a contract. I'm not sure what part of that you don't understand.

 

[ironspud]

It's more fun to speculate that AA doesn't even need the eastholes. Just take the planes and the west pilots. Solves a ton of current and potential major problems.

 

[Holy Shiite]

Pvt. Lee the "rules" say the list is used when AWA and US Stupidways ratify a contract. I'm not sure what part of that you don't understand.

A little off topic here but the "general" is most likely not an Airline Pilot at all. Probably a scumbag lawyer or a management puke. He posts to stir the pot and create dissension. Look at his history of posts and it becomes all to clear. Majors, regionals, how many posts does he have? Way too much time on his hands and way too much interest in creating conflict on these boards.

Why would a so called Delta pilot take such an interest in these forums? Yup, there isn't one. HS

 

[MCDU]

A little off topic here but the "general" is most likely not an Airline Pilot at all. Probably a scumbag lawyer or a management puke. He posts to stir the pot and create dissension. Look at his history of posts and it becomes all to clear. Majors, regionals, how many posts does he have? Way too much time on his hands and way too much interest in creating conflict on these boards.

Why would a so called Delta pilot take such an interest in these forums? Yup, there isn't one. HS

Bingo. That is the consensus by most.

M

 

[General Lee]

A little off topic here but the "general" is most likely not an Airline Pilot at all. Probably a scumbag lawyer or a management puke. He posts to stir the pot and create dissension. Look at his history of posts and it becomes all to clear. Majors, regionals, how many posts does he have? Way too much time on his hands and way too much interest in creating conflict on these boards.

Why would a so called Delta pilot take such an interest in these forums? Yup, there isn't one. HS

AHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA. You're a dork. Why would a PILOT take an interest in an aviation forum? REALLY? I have been on this board for 14 years. Look at you, talk about being full of shiite.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Bingo. That is the consensus by most.

M

The NIC award will rule, and you know it. I can't wait to watch the continuation of your train wreck.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[cactusboy53]

I think what Silver decides will become important when and if a joint agreement is reached and ratified between USAPA and US Airways. Of course if an agreement between these two parties is never reached due to a merger with American, her ruling won't really matter... It will have no bearing on a seniority list between USAPA and the APA...

Ahhhh...I get it now. You are saying that the arbitration panel (of three) will be presented with three lists and told that SINCE there was no joint agreement ratified between the former AAA pilots and the AWA pilots that the Nicolau Seniority arbitration "doesn't count".

I wonder how the arbitration panel of three (that are most assuredly co-workers/friends/ mentees of Arbitrator Nicolau) would respond to that position?

Keep swinging for the fences boys, theres bound to be a good pitch in the bunch! Question: WHEN we finally work together, how much money do you think LCC will offer you for all your pain, angst & agony for all that you have suffered (considering that most of it is self inflicted)?

Pizza anyone?

 

[General Lee]

Hey, everyone can trust the Easties NOW, because THIS TIME, it will be FOR REAL. For real for real. This time. This SLI, they will HONOR. Trust them. They are NOT crossing their fingers behind their backs. This time, it's for real!


Bye Bye----General Lee

 

[charlie2]

Hey, everyone can trust the Easties NOW, because THIS TIME, it will be FOR REAL. For real for real. This time. This SLI, they will HONOR. Trust them. They are NOT crossing their fingers behind their backs. This time, it's for real!


Bye Bye----General Lee

Trust? Go eat your grits. This is business.

 

[Holy Shiite]

AHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA. You're a dork. Why would a PILOT take an interest in an aviation forum? REALLY? I have been on this board for 14 years. Look at you, talk about being full of shiite.


Bye Bye---General Lee

Go crawl back in your cubicle, poser. Actually, I like private better! HS

 

[ALGFLYR]

Ahhhh...I get it now. You are saying that the arbitration panel (of three) will be presented with three lists and told that SINCE there was no joint agreement ratified between the former AAA pilots and the AWA pilots that the Nicolau Seniority arbitration "doesn't count".

...

Yes. It's not that it "doesn't count", It's just that the clearly defined conditions that would make it "count" were never realized (Assuming a merger with AA happens). The Nicolau list is not an official seniority list. If it were, you could bid PHL and I could bid PHX. Neither of us can do that because it's not an official seniority list on this property.

 

[General Lee]

Yes. It's not that it "doesn't count", It's just that the clearly defined conditions that would make it "count" were never realized (Assuming a merger with AA happens). The Nicolau list is not an official seniority list. If it were, you could bid PHL and I could bid PHX. Neither of us can do that because it's not an official seniority list on this property.

Looooooooozer! You guys agreed to NIC doing the list. He did it, you didn't like it, you changed unions to avoid it. Don't say it didn't happen like that. It will follow you, just like a divorce settlement. HAVE FUN!


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[ALGFLYR]

Looooooooozer! You guys agreed to NIC doing the list. He did it, you didn't like it, you changed unions to avoid it. Don't say it didn't happen like that. It will follow you, just like a divorce settlement. HAVE FUN!


Bye Bye---General Lee

Loser? Really GL? I challenge you to find any post I have ever posted that I resorted to name calling. I welcome participating in a civilized debate and will engage in such until it becomes a childish bout of name calling and the like.

To me it seems that if an argument is presented and the best someone can come back with is calling names and trying to pull someone down to that level, the name caller is either uneducated about the subject matter, or knows he is wrong and resorts to calling someone names in a childish fashion to make themselves feel better... Either way, I suppose I shall go back into lurking mode...

 

[The Drizzle]

Loser? Really GL? I challenge you to find any post I have ever posted that I resorted to name calling. I welcome participating in a civilized debate and will engage in such until it becomes a childish bout of name calling and the like.

To me it seems that if an argument is presented and the best someone can come back with is calling names and trying to pull someone down to that level, the name caller is either uneducated about the subject matter, or knows he is wrong and resorts to calling someone names in a childish fashion to make themselves feel better... Either way, I suppose I shall go back into lurking mode...

I'm just a third-lister who's eagerly awaiting his turn under the bus, but don't surviving entities still have to adhere to previous agreements? Wouldn't the surviving entity, AA in this case, still have to adhere to the transition agreement that made the Nic contingent on a joint contract?

 

[Turtle21]

I'm just a third-lister who's eagerly awaiting his turn under the bus, but don't surviving entities still have to adhere to previous agreements? Wouldn't the surviving entity, AA in this case, still have to adhere to the transition agreement that made the Nic contingent on a joint contract?

The terms of the TA did not envision nor provide for a merger beyond the scope of AWA and LCC, accept of course for the part of that TA that retained the right for parties to entirely change everything via negotiations, which works out well to move forward in the seniority dispute if there is a new merger ahead.

P.S. I think lawyers would not refer to USAPA as a "surviving" entity.. rather it is a superseding one, and thus has the right to negotiate as granted by the TA. Any other superseding entity would likewise have the same right to negotiate.

 

[The Drizzle]

P.S. I think lawyers would not refer to USAPA as a "surviving" entity.. rather it is a superseding one, and thus has the right to negotiate as granted by the TA. Any other superseding entity would likewise have the same right to negotiate.

Isn't this where history and law aren't on USAPA's side? I don't know of a single case where a change of representation released the new representation from the obligations of the previous. Do the USAPA paid lawyers have backing or are these new arguments?

 

[cactusboy53]

The terms of the TA did not envision nor provide for a merger beyond the scope of AWA and LCC, accept of course for the part of that TA that retained the right for parties to entirely change everything via negotiations, which works out well to move forward in the seniority dispute if there is a new merger ahead.

P.S. I think lawyers would not refer to USAPA as a "surviving" entity.. rather it is a superseding one, and thus has the right to negotiate as granted by the TA. Any other superseding entity would likewise have the same right to negotiate.

Except for the actions of the collective majority of the former US Air pilots, yes there would have been a joint contract. Thus failing to accept the results of a final and binding seniority arbitration has cost each and every pilot on the property quite nearly 5 years of contract improvments and time off.

Goning one step further, I count many actions of USAPA as unacceptable. These actions include, but are not limited to the 2X RICO charges that cost those 24+ pilots nearly $5-$10K EACH and the trumped up "Address-Gate" charges.

According to your pretzel logic, you should not be surprised when the American pilots make you understand that the superseding union will be able to negotiate anything it wants to on your behalf because they out number you.

Tomorrow will be an interesting day.

 

[Turtle21]

Isn't this where history and law aren't on USAPA's side? I don't know of a single case where a change of representation released the new representation from the obligations of the previous. Do the USAPA paid lawyers have backing or are these new arguments?

The TA itself provides for negotiations and modifications of the entire TA, and if a merger occurs with AA, the TA is in no way adequate for a new merger (ie. its useless).

 

[Turtle21]

Except for the actions of the collective majority of the former US Air pilots, yes there would have been a joint contract. Thus failing to accept the results of a final and binding seniority arbitration has cost each and every pilot on the property quite nearly 5 years of contract improvments and time off.

Goning one step further, I count many actions of USAPA as unacceptable. These actions include, but are not limited to the 2X RICO charges that cost those 24+ pilots nearly $5-$10K EACH and the trumped up "Address-Gate" charges.

According to your pretzel logic, you should not be surprised when the American pilots make you understand that the superseding union will be able to negotiate anything it wants to on your behalf because they out number you.

Tomorrow will be an interesting day.

You have been told when you can sue, and it ain't tomorrow.

 

[Turtle21]

Except for the actions of the collective majority of the former US Air pilots, yes there would have been a joint contract. Thus failing to accept the results of a final and binding seniority arbitration has cost each and every pilot on the property quite nearly 5 years of contract improvments and time off.

Goning one step further, I count many actions of USAPA as unacceptable. These actions include, but are not limited to the 2X RICO charges that cost those 24+ pilots nearly $5-$10K EACH and the trumped up "Address-Gate" charges.

According to your pretzel logic, you should not be surprised when the American pilots make you understand that the superseding union will be able to negotiate anything it wants to on your behalf because they out number you.

Tomorrow will be an interesting day.

You have been told when you can sue, and it ain't tomorrow.

A superseding union gets to negotiate according to a wide range of reasonableness.