They both can be dangerous, but, IMO, that's not why one has caught the attention of the national media and the other hasn't. One incident appears to involve human error, the other neglect.I'm amazed at the media attention to the NWA overflight but the lack of attention to the landing on a taxiway by Delta. Which one is more dangerous?
YGTBSM, so the other doesn't involve human error? the other neglect?one involves human error, the other neglect
In their vile attempt to pervert the truth and explain away the biggest blunder of modern airline times,
YHGTBFKM...What's more dangerous? Taxiway or Overflight+
This is absolutley correct. DL had a medical emergency, sidestepped, made an error on the piece of pavement in front of them and landed. Then, and here is the key, confessed to their wrong doing and explained in a reasonable manner how it happened. I do not believe the NWA crew did anything to help their own situation. As my father used to say "if you find yourself digging a hole for yourself, put down the shovel."They both can be dangerous, but, IMO, that's not why one has caught the attention of the national media and the other hasn't. One incident appears to involve human error, the other neglect.
a blunder is not a tragedy. A blunder is an action based the inability to repeat a menial task designed to produce a predictable result. to say that overlfying MSP, and dismissing with a "my dog ate my homework" level excuse, is bunk is to deny the stupidity and insanity of it all.
would it be bunk to say that a surgeon cutting off your penile membrane was bunk when he really wanted to take out your appendix. that would be a blunder in every sense of the word.
overflying your DEST when you're an airline pilot is like me saying to Simon
Cowell, "I'm the next american idol"
It's also like a surgeon beginning an operation and walking away from the operating table to sit down in font of his laptop to watch House and fall asleep until the nurse comes a-knocking to remind him theres a patient with an open heart laying on the table.overflying your DEST when you're an airline pilot is like me saying to Simon
Cowell, "I'm the next american idol"
you said it is bunk and you said my assertion was false because it was not the deadliest... you missed my whole point. this incident has nothing to do with death but alot to do with complete absurdity. that is what a blunder is. A blunder is a fumbled punt. a botched snap, and on and on.
yes, it is the biggest blunder of modern airlines times.. name one bigger!
YGTBSM, so the other doesn't involve human error? the other neglect?
i think they both involved both, but one could happen to most anybody, but the other was so grossly unconscionable, so derelict, so wantonly negligent, so pathetic and so lied about. 188 crew is trying to desparately save face even though they're through. they were sleeping and any disgusting attempt to defend them is beyond comprehension. In their vile attempt to pervert the truth and explain away the biggest blunder of modern airline times, they allow themselves to ride out their lives as shams, as liars and hopelessly resigned to dumb anguish. Like OJ, maybe there will be a deathbed confession, a petition for mercy, and an request to be forgiven. just tell the truth. nobody overflies by 150 miles. if you were awake , wouldn't you ever be slightly curious as to the time remaining on such a long leg. they're liars plain and simple. Man up 188, Man up.
The taxiway could have been very bad if someone else was on it at the time. The question is: Was the Delta crew absolutely certain that the taxiway was clear before they landed on it? It seems like a dumb question but since they landed on a taxi way in the first place it is not that much of a stretch to wonder if they knew for certain that their path was clear (especially because it was dark).
We all know what the proper response is if ever asked this question in an investigation, but none of us will ever really know what the crew saw or did't see in ATL.
That's exactly why I think they are telling the truth. It is a much harder road to admit you were breaking company policy and on your laptops than take the easy out and say "we fell asleep." This is why aussiepilot looks so weird jumping all over this... it's like a dog barking up the wrong tree.With the issue of fatigue being in the spotlight lately, wouldn't falling asleep be easier to explain and defend, as opposed to being on laptops and not paying attention? There have been numerous instances in the past of pilots falling asleep in the cockpit, and the public is receiving more and more information on this issue through the media. We all know it's possible to still end up dog tired even after a long layover and having actually gotten plenty of sleep the night before. The human body can still become fatigued due to differing sleep cycles from the previous few weeks, so even though you had a 19hr layover, falling asleep in the cockpit is still a possiblity though you showed up to work feeling just fine.
With that said, if I were one of the NWA pilots, I think I would much rather defend me being dead tired and falling asleep than say that we were using our laptops. Many on here are saying these guys should "man up" and tell the truth. Well, I think it took a lot of courage to come forth and say they were on their computers. Much more difficult to admit than falling asleep, in my opinion. I would think the flying public might actually have some sympathy for tired pilots, even after a long layover. They were'nt out drinking and ALPA could easily get on the news and start talking about circadium sleep cylces and explain the effects of interuptions.
So yes, I think these guys told the truth.
Now it's our responsiblity as professionals to take what we've learned from two unfortunate events the past couple of weeks and remind ourselves not to let our guard down. Why do highly educated, highly trained professionals make seemingly "stupid" mistakes? How is it a doctor can amputate the wrong limb, or leave behind a medical instrument? The same way a commercial airline crew overflies their destination, they let down their guard and got complacent.
Now, we can be high-schoolish and come on this board and name call, airline bash, and talk about how these two should be crucified, or we can be professionals and learn something.
My two cents. Rant over.