What will Flex do?

[wolfpackpilot]

As an NJA pilot, I am hoping that Flex, Options and Shares all get better pay and work rules as a reaction to our TA. It can only be good for all of us in the industry

yeah thats what Comiar pilots thought too. It went 180 degrees on them. NJA isn't affected by the exact same factors the airlines are, and this comparison is in some ways apples and oranges; but the underlying theme is the same:


If your working for $20/hr. under a union contract.

Someone out there is going to do (or try) it for $18.50/hr with no union.


Bottom Line:

It's lonely on the top

 

[CL604DRVR]

No gray areas at all

You are either in rest or on duty. No in betweens allowed.

I for one wish all of the fractionals operated this way. It would be good for the owners and the pilots. And yes it does require more pilots

The problem is no one here has mentioned the fact that Flex has an exception in their management specs to use 135 rest rules in lieu of 91k rest rules ( FOM 14a-35) and it is signed by our POI. In terms of rest we are 135 as best I can tell and I belive that the one phone call up to 2 hours into or 2 hours prior to rest ending has been upheld as not an interuption of rest for 135. (Anyone with valid info on this).

Sorry guys. I agree with all of you in regards to 91k, but 91k does not apply here.

604

 

[gunfyter]

Read the court case I posted earlier that was in regard to 135. Yes they can call but if you HAVE TO answer... its not Rest.

And if you answer and you have to accept the trip... its not rest either. If you can say, No I think I will keep my original showtime... then that might be different.

 

[NewFlex]

Right on the money Gunfyter

 

[CL604DRVR]

Gunfyter,

Where did you post that case? I would like to give it a read.

 

[gunfyter]

http://www.law.emory.edu/1circuit/aug99/99-1888.01a.html

 

[Sky Pirate]

Any Flex pilots out there, that have left Flex under two years and Bombardier has gone after them for the remainder of the training contract? I ran into a few people who used to work for Flex and left in less then two years and told me that the training contract that they signed was technically not enforceable. Just trying to get some info on this and wondering how they went about fighting the contract. Thanks in advance.

 

[hatetoadmitit]

Any Flex pilots out there, that have left Flex under two years and Bombardier has gone after them for the remainder of the training contract? I ran into a few people who used to work for Flex and left in less then two years and told me that the training contract that they signed was technically not enforceable. Just trying to get some info on this and wondering how they went about fighting the contract. Thanks in advance.

I had a friend leave about four years ago and they sent a collection agency after him. He told the collection agency that flexjet did not live up to the end of their contract and he has not heard from the collection agency in about two years.

135 rest.....yes flexjet is under 135 rest requirements, but like
gunfyter vbmenu_register("postmenu_806722", true); said you do not have to accept an earlier assignment, but flexjet has made it clear that if you dont, management will take action against you. Its easy to say don't answer your phone until you remember that you have a family to support

 

[ce750drvr]

I had a friend leave about four years ago and they sent a collection agency after him. He told the collection agency that flexjet did not live up to the end of their contract and he has not heard from the collection agency in about two years.

135 rest.....yes flexjet is under 135 rest requirements, but like
gunfyter vbmenu_register("postmenu_806722", true); said you do not have to accept an earlier assignment, but flexjet has made it clear that if you dont, management will take action against you. Its easy to say don't answer your phone until you remember that you have a family to support

Man I wished I worked there (not really) but, that is one legal battle I would love to take on. Regs are regs and violations are violations. Needless to say, I wouldn't have to work the rest of my life they "took action" against me for NOT violating the regs. Take a stand.

 

[hatetoadmitit]

Man I wished I worked there (not really) but, that is one legal battle I would love to take on. Regs are regs and violations are violations. Needless to say, I wouldn't have to work the rest of my life they "took action" against me for NOT violating the regs. Take a stand.

I would love to take a stand. But I don't have any long term desires with this company and I hope to be gone soon. I know that is kind of a cop out attitude, but I could really care less about Flexjet as a company.

 

[ce750drvr]

I would love to take a stand. But I don't have any long term desires with this company and I hope to be gone soon. I know that is kind of a cop out attitude, but I could really care less about Flexjet as a company.

All the more reason that I would make a stand. That is just the way I am though. I love a good fight. I refuse to be walked on by anybody. Not saying that you do, was just getting the blood pressure up a bit.

 

[Peter_Griffin]

Back to the original thought here -- what will flex do? Who knows but I can guarantee if they don't do something, I for one will be leaving. And I know of several others (10 plus at last count) who are actively scouting other jobs in addition to myself. Couple that with the fact that we will no longer get qualified/competetive candidates and flex is up a river.

The company's not great, but not the worst either. Not something I would want to leave for any other job, but not also one I'd sacrifice for at all. For you captains out there who are more or less locked in with fewer options than us guys only in a few years, think about all the fo's you like flying with and how quickly they'd be gone and how quickly your fo seat with be filled with some of the morons you guys are always complaining about (or at least to me). I've had many many of you tell me to get out now and how you wish you had that option.

For me it's quality of life first (which SUCKS here lately you must admit) and money second but money is still a very close second.

No, I won't post on bluebelly cuz I'm not stupid and neither will 95% of those who are looking for greener pastures. For the guy who used Kip, Peyton etc... as an example of being able to speak out and not get fired you are wrong. I do not think any oh them have spoken anywhere near the truth of how most are feeling. I can tell you for a fact having spoken with them personally, they are't saying nearly as much on Bluebelly as they do just hanging around Teterboro so I don't think that's a good example at all...

And to the idiots on the BB rumors board, while it's true no one forced me to take this job, it's also true they aren't doing very much to make me want to stay. The training contract is no longer an issue for me, but at this point I'd leave anyway if it were and pay them back out of the bigger checks I'd get elsewhere.

Sorry so long, but maybe there's some of you out there that really don't know this is how a lot of us feel -- don't believe me? -- ask your co-pilot if they are honestly looking elsewhere and if they trust you, you might be surprised how many of them will answer hell yes. Nothing against flex, but if they don't change I wouldn't want to stick around and be miserable and locked in 10 years from now.

For me to stick around a while they have to at least match it. To make it a career job, they'd have to get rid of the pilots are a dime a dozen mentality D Gross and so many higher ups have.

 

[CL604DRVR]

Back to the original thought here -- what will flex do? Who knows but I can guarantee if they don't do something, I for one will be leaving. And I know of several others (10 plus at last count) who are actively scouting other jobs in addition to myself. Couple that with the fact that we will no longer get qualified/competetive candidates and flex is up a river.

The company's not great, but not the worst either. Not something I would want to leave for any other job, but not also one I'd sacrifice for at all. For you captains out there who are more or less locked in with fewer options than us guys only in a few years, think about all the fo's you like flying with and how quickly they'd be gone and how quickly your fo seat with be filled with some of the morons you guys are always complaining about (or at least to me). I've had many many of you tell me to get out now and how you wish you had that option.

For me it's quality of life first (which SUCKS here lately you must admit) and money second but money is still a very close second.

No, I won't post on bluebelly cuz I'm not stupid and neither will 95% of those who are looking for greener pastures. For the guy who used Kip, Peyton etc... as an example of being able to speak out and not get fired you are wrong. I do not think any oh them have spoken anywhere near the truth of how most are feeling. I can tell you for a fact having spoken with them personally, they are't saying nearly as much on Bluebelly as they do just hanging around Teterboro so I don't think that's a good example at all...

And to the idiots on the BB rumors board, while it's true no one forced me to take this job, it's also true they aren't doing very much to make me want to stay. The training contract is no longer an issue for me, but at this point I'd leave anyway if it were and pay them back out of the bigger checks I'd get elsewhere.

Sorry so long, but maybe there's some of you out there that really don't know this is how a lot of us feel -- don't believe me? -- ask your co-pilot if they are honestly looking elsewhere and if they trust you, you might be surprised how many of them will answer hell yes. Nothing against flex, but if they don't change I wouldn't want to stick around and be miserable and locked in 10 years from now.

For me to stick around a while they have to at least match it. To make it a career job, they'd have to get rid of the pilots are a dime a dozen mentality D Gross and so many higher ups have.

I simply can not add anything to this. Well said. Good luck with your search

604

 

[vixin]

Peter,

I agree with everything you said except 1 thing. Almost all the captains I know are actively looking also. While their options maybe a little more limiting. Some will take a lateral step just to get out. My schedule the last few months, heck years, has sucked. Plus I have been working my butt off. Not that I am affraid of working, but on our schedule it is hard.

My only point with the BB is that if everyone posted how they felt then management would see the true picture. You know, the BIG picture they always talk about. HAHA!! Who knows maybe our wonderful managers will do their touchy feely phone calls again. What a joke that was. I am far from a company koolaid drinker.

I do know they better get off their arses and make an announcement about what they are going to do. The natives are getting very restless. Their lack of crew involvement with this is hurting them tremendously. They say the crews are the most important part of flex...well show us then. They dont want us to be unhappy and drive owners away (Not that we would act in a unprofessional way). Prove it to us.

 

[Peter_Griffin]

Vixen,

My impression is that management has no desire to see the big picture let alone the true picture and posting on BB is a big risk in addition to it just being a waste of time if only to fall on deaf ears...

Quality of life issues are the biggest problem at flex right now. I get the impression management is waiting as long as they can (at least not til after nj ratification) to annouce a plan they've already had formulated with several contingincies for quite some time now. Heck, they kept owners in the dark (aka lied) about cruise speeds for months -- you think they are beyond shafting us dime a dozen pilots for a few more weeks...

If they don't have a plan yet I would consider that irresponsible and just plain unacceptable. Once again they must think we're idiots to have us believing they are still working on it -- and if they really are still working on it I would question the level of competence at Waterview -- we have ALL known this would eventually come up -- it's not like the contract was a total surprise, just a better one than anyone realistically thought possible.

I for one would like to see at a minimum them match the pay and duty days structure and then as secondary issues consider a 7/7 -- much better than the 6/4 and might save the company some $$ to -- or 4 day max trips and a guarantee last day arrival back to gateway earlier than midnight. Us pilots with kids are hurting on these schedules and the days are long and grueling -- like 14 hour days are the norm now. You need a whole day to recover when you do get home. And I'd like to see them match match NJ on the company paid benies -- this new plan is gonna suck...

Any suggestions -- maybe this board gets seen by more than we know...