What Others Think of the DAL MEC

[~~~^~~~]

Fins your a level headed guy I can tell. I guess all I can say here how do you know we took the easy way out? You sure it wasn't your guys.

So who has caused more harm to the combined pilot group?

What I mean to say is that your MEC's unanamous "no" decision was easier than facing the fact that things are going to change and making the most of it.

It is easy to sit back and be against everything. It is more difficult to lead. There is no doubt the DAL MEC lead the way, getting management to the table and preparing integration models.

It is too early to say what the effect of the NWA's Reps intransigence is going to be. From here it looks like they have harmed their pilots and helped the Delta pilots.

To explain: Delta is supposed to start hiring this fall and even if they would prefer to wait, they can't, with the airplanes coming that need drivers. LOA 19 provides the Delta pilots with furlough protection. To me, it appears that these events will help the Delta pilots in a relative seniority result.

The plan was never to isolate the NWA pilots while the fleet was rationalized, but it looks like that is a possibility.

If there was a time for "peak leverage" that time has probably come and gone. Even the Delta pilots accepted less than what was on the table previously. It is more difficult to negotiate in a time of declining realities after expectations are set much higher. The job of both MEC's get harder as time goes on....

Everyone knows the NWA MEC can be effective in harming the Company and us. No one wants that to happen. The strong preference is for a joint agreement with co workers that are happy to fly for Delta.

Just my nobody opinion.... :cartman:

I do not like the way things are going because the DAL MEC will likely take the blame/credit politically for something they actually tried to prevent.

 

[GogglesPisano]

It is easy to sit back and be against everything. It is more difficult to lead. .

Amen, brother. :beer:

 

[737 Pylt]

Dalpa has been boning CMR for years. They were just waiting for the BIG FISH! That's why we slapped the RJDC on them. I guess ALPA will stand back and watch as usual..

Wow sporto.....Soooo, just where did you spend all that $$ won in that lawsuit??:laugh: :laugh:

737

 

[Fly4hire]

I do not like the way things are going because the DAL MEC will likely take the blame/credit politically for something they actually tried to prevent.

I keep hearing how DAL tried to "help" the NWA pilots and how we kept being so stubborn, uncooperative, etc.

The fact is neither side has made public what the actual final proposals were and how it would have numerically affected pilots at various levels at day one, and in subsequent out years.

My Reps have told me the claims of stapling 3000 DAL pilots is utter nonsense, and that the relative seniority of NW pilot suffered intolerably within 5 yrs.

Your Reps claim you were being fair and equitable and the NW pilots belligerent, and wanting far more than we brought to the table.

I propose that until we see the final positions of both parties laid out for us both to evaluate we (myself at the top of the list) give it a rest.

I'm not conceding who is right or wrong, but that simply we don't have enough factual data to make a case either way.

I sincerely hope that both sides lay the entire proposals out publicly to the pilots of both groups so we can make an objective decision.

Despite the hyperbole and considerable pride and ego of both pilot groups there has to be enough common ground where we can find an agreement workable for everyone.

(To the usual suspects, please spare the "if your side had only done x, y, or z, or agreed with our fair offer")

 

[DrunkIrishman]

I have yet to meet a union rep that doesn't say a bunch of things to support his own cause, even if it is embelished or misrepresented...then when called on something he backs down and changes his tune.

I would be suspicious of both MEC's.

 

[jkkdca]

Fly4hire, how many times do we have to say relative seniority +-1-2% for you to understand it. That was our proposal. You still haven't told us what yours was or what you think is fair. Go ahead.

 

[Kroll]

So, if someone has a weaker case, and knows it, they shouldn't negotiate so there could be a chance to abritrate it and MAYBE win anyway? They kept the pension, had a lot of older planes, worse bases, and would get a pay raise along with losing their boss that hates them. Hmmmmmm. I guess that is NOT good enough. Let's roll the dice and hopefully win something with someone who really doesn't care, and if we lose we can blame it on them!! A win win.


Bye Bye--General Lee

Well I don't have a pension. I like MSP (yes it is colder than a well-diggers a$$) and lived in Ann Arbor for about 6 years. Your argument of a weaker postion based on domicle, pension, wide body verses narrow is weak. I think it is safe to say there are things that suck on both sides. Don't you guys have APU nazis? That kinda blows. You have to wear a huge radar on your head all day. That blows. Doesn't ATL have cockroches everywhere? Look you want it to be fair and so do I. Both of us don't have all the facts.

 

[Kroll]

What I mean to say is that your MEC's unanamous "no" decision was easier than facing the fact that things are going to change and making the most of it.

It is easy to sit back and be against everything. It is more difficult to lead. There is no doubt the DAL MEC lead the way, getting management to the table and preparing integration models.

It is too early to say what the effect of the NWA's Reps intransigence is going to be. From here it looks like they have harmed their pilots and helped the Delta pilots.

To explain: Delta is supposed to start hiring this fall and even if they would prefer to wait, they can't, with the airplanes coming that need drivers. LOA 19 provides the Delta pilots with furlough protection. To me, it appears that these events will help the Delta pilots in a relative seniority result.

The plan was never to isolate the NWA pilots while the fleet was rationalized, but it looks like that is a possibility.

If there was a time for "peak leverage" that time has probably come and gone. Even the Delta pilots accepted less than what was on the table previously. It is more difficult to negotiate in a time of declining realities after expectations are set much higher. The job of both MEC's get harder as time goes on....

Everyone knows the NWA MEC can be effective in harming the Company and us. No one wants that to happen. The strong preference is for a joint agreement with co workers that are happy to fly for Delta.

Just my nobody opinion.... :cartman:

I do not like the way things are going because the DAL MEC will likely take the blame/credit politically for something they actually tried to prevent.

Fins nice post. I can't say that I have enough info to know who said what, who lead or who didn't. Dalpa going to mngmt doesn't tell me their leading it appears they're running. I think there is BS on both sides. I'm not sure why I waste my time with this dribble. This is where we are now and we both need to come together and right this ship.

 

[NuGuy]

Fly4hire, how many times do we have to say relative seniority +-1-2% for you to understand it. That was our proposal. You still haven't told us what yours was or what you think is fair. Go ahead.

Because there is absolutely NO proof to back up your claim other than "well, we told you that's what it is" in the face of our reps telling us that was NO where near what the final DAL offer was.

Until it is in print from your MEC, it's luncheon meat.

Nu

 

[General Lee]

Well I don't have a pension. I like MSP (yes it is colder than a well-diggers a$$) and lived in Ann Arbor for about 6 years. Your argument of a weaker postion based on domicle, pension, wide body verses narrow is weak. I think it is safe to say there are things that suck on both sides. Don't you guys have APU nazis? That kinda blows. You have to wear a huge radar on your head all day. That blows. Doesn't ATL have cockroches everywhere? Look you want it to be fair and so do I. Both of us don't have all the facts.

APU Nazis? We have people that would rather us not use them all of the time, but if the Captain wants to use it, he/she is allowed. And I think the uniform looks good. If you don't want to stand out in the crowd, well, blend in with it. And, I haven't seen that many cockroaches. There are probably just as many in MEM as there are in ATL. We don't have gophers and huge misquitos as big as choppers like you do up North.

My argument is spot on about how much you would get vs what we get in this merger. You gain a heck of a lot more, and most of your senior guys keep their pensions. Ours do not. Yes, we got some compensation, but not even close to the amount your guys will get, and you will get our better work rules as a bonus, along with a pay bump and chance to fly closer to where a lot of you live. The ability to fly a widebody for even more pay is better after we merge---there are so many good things in it for you, and for us---well, we might be able to see Asia SOONER than we would when we get 777s that would have gone there anyway. Did you know we are getting 20 more 777LRs? Where do you think they will go? Also, you have to remember that we did lose a bunch of guys to early outs, but as that happened we PARKED PLANES. We parked MD11s, 767-200s, and all of our 737-200s and 737-300s. Does that sound like everyone jumped forward and gained huge sums of money? What would have happened had your guys left for their pensions, and at the same time you parked all DC9s and 742s? Not much movement, eh? Sounds familiar.

So, I am just saying you guys had a great offer on the table, and your apparent inflexibility over seniority integration---something which could balance out the gains for each group--yours gaining more in pay, rules, base choices, keeping a pension that we don't have, etc.---has lead you to this point. You need to see that to be fair, you need to give a bit to equalize the gains for each group.


Bye Bye--General Lee