What might the bottom of AAL and LCC SLI look like

[General Lee]

From above, the part that needs to be looked at again:

"I want all pilots at US Airways and American Airlines to be treated fairly in the seniority process. You could make a valid argument that it is hypocritical to say that APA would not treat us fairly if they solely represented us in seniority talks but USAPA could fairly represent the West in the same talks. I get it, but the Nicolau Award presents a different dynamic. Given the chance to stand before an arbitration panel as a full participant and present their case to implement the Nic, or a close substitute based on the argument that it was previously awarded by an arbitrator, is a potentially career ending chance that we cannot accept. Although we have won numerous court cases rejecting the Nic, arbitration is different and uncertain. The rules of law that apply to the decision making process of courts do not apply to arbitration."




Yup, he knows that the NIC could be reinstated, and there are risks. (Like the first arbitration they agreed to. Uhhhhhh, duh!!!)



Jackholes!!


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Easy answer, a JCBA was required to institute the NIC. this never happened. So NIC was never used or put into effect....

Think a Judge recently ruled on whether the NIC had to be used in the MOU, but I could be mistaken.

Via a post from APC concerning the NIC award....

From a 2007 article:

"The Tempe, Ariz.-based airline has struggled to merge its pilot groups following America West Airlines' acquisition of the former US Airways in 2005. Pilots from both carriers have been trying to hammer out a joint contract, but those who were with the original US Airways recently walked away from the negotiating table, demanding immediate pay raises before they return."



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Crzipilot]

So, signatures don't matter? Did your MEC leader, Parker, and the West leader sign on the dotted line first? You're saying the lawyers all got it wrong?? Sure... So, tell that to the first three arbitrators (the ones meeting with the AWA party) and then the second three, that their work (like NIC's award) doesn't count.... This is gonna be fun....


Bye Bye---General Lee

sure signatures matter, the signatures on the T/A which controlled the timelines of our merger. Now if you read that T/A (which D and U learned from) It states that the arbitrated award will not be in effect until a JCBA is negotiated.

Soooooooo the NIC sits there waiting on a JCBA between East/West. Where is it? As soon as it comes forth we can start using the NIC.

Keep going though 'cause AA came in and complicated things. Now there's a MOU which all sides agreed that previous agreements are gone and no longer in effect. That meant stuff like a JCBA between east and west is not going to happen. AOL sued saying it was a DFR for USAPA to negotiate a change and not include the NIC award. I believe a judge agreed with USAPA, and even stated that USAPA had a legitimate union purpose to negotiate away the original T/A that included the NIC.


Now for the AA guys that might scan through this, a question for you. With the NIC, Every West pilot can hold Capt. So if that is the list used to merger with AA, then instead of 2500 capts, there are 3300 capts. I.E. relative position should place every West F/O above EVERY AA F/O.

Sounds fair right?

 

[waveflyer]

GL has 14 of 33 posts on this thread...

 

[Scoot 11]

GL has 14 of 33 posts on this thread...

Must be a slow day at the Sky West offices.

 

[cbrown1]

This site would be much better off if a certain group of trolls were banned.

 

[get2flyin]

sure signatures matter.....

(Removed for brevity)

Now for the AA guys that might scan through this, a question for you. With the NIC, Every West pilot can hold Capt. So if that is the list used to merger with AA, then instead of 2500 capts, there are 3300 capts. I.E. relative position should place every West F/O above EVERY AA F/O.

Sounds fair right?

I can't help but notice you failed to call the attention of the AA pilots to the fact that since every West pilot could theoretically hold Captain, then every East pilot on the property (*not on furlough) at the time of the AWA/USAirways merger can ALSO hold captain. By utilizing the "union" to run the company as two separate entities, USAirway allowed junior pilots to upgrade WAY out of order.

Damn you, AWA first officers, for insisting that USAPA keep you stuck on the bottom of a stagnant list while junior pilots on the East were "forced" to upgrade!

Is that really the argument you're trying to make to appeal to the AA pilots? Really?

 

[cbrown1]

Everyone hired after whatever the snapshot date is, whether 2/13 or 9/13, will be slotted in DOH.

Pre-Merger list, anything can happen.

Dec, 13 is the date.

 

[St. Nic]

General Lee- stay in your own yard. You have an opinion and feel like you have to share everything on here. We are tired of your drivel. Shhhh!!!!
Hush it! You don't know what your talking about and don't understand the east west fight at all. It takes two to tango and the west is just as much if not more to blame for this mess. Leave us all alone!

 

[General Lee]

This site would be much better off if a certain group of trolls were banned.

Thanks Vladamir Putin! Ban everyone who speaks out... Everyone who brings up valid points contradicting your idiotic thoughts is a troll..... Riiiight....



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

General Lee- stay in your own yard. You have an opinion and feel like you have to share everything on here. We are tired of your drivel. Shhhh!!!!
Hush it! You don't know what your talking about and don't understand the east west fight at all. It takes two to tango and the west is just as much if not more to blame for this mess. Leave us all alone!

Hahaha! I bring up valid points that you can't refute, and you say "stay in your own yard..." I can't wait to watch your train wreck. This additional arbitration panel for the West guys was a genius move by the APA. You will be castrated after that going into the main arbitration panel. At least that's what your CLT base chairman thinks.... Oh well.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

GL has 14 of 33 posts on this thread...

Uhhh, and you still haven't added anything of substance. The way you guys treated the AT guys must still be haunting you. Those guys will never forget their poor treatment by your union and your boss. I can see why you stay silent on similar issues.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Dec, 13 is the date.

Is that what happened in previous mergers? Are you just guessing? Was that the date of the announcement of the merger? Look up precedence. DL hired about 400 pilots after the merger was announced, and I'm pretty sure they were placed on the bottom. Everyone hired after the announcement of the AWA/US merger (third listers) will be placed below the NIC award (IMO), and then anyone hired after the announcement of the AA/US merger will be placed below all of the AA/US/AWA pilots too, in DOH order for those pilots (hired after the announcement).

It's gonna get interesting.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[RJLoser]

Dec, 13 is the date.

Source?

 

[General Lee]

Source?

Was that when they announced the merger? If so, that is probably correct. It's called precedence.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[The Drizzle]

Source?

The Protocol Agreement for one.

 

[General Lee]

sure signatures matter, the signatures on the T/A which controlled the timelines of our merger. Now if you read that T/A (which D and U learned from) It states that the arbitrated award will not be in effect until a JCBA is negotiated.

Soooooooo the NIC sits there waiting on a JCBA between East/West. Where is it? As soon as it comes forth we can start using the NIC.

Keep going though 'cause AA came in and complicated things. Now there's a MOU which all sides agreed that previous agreements are gone and no longer in effect. That meant stuff like a JCBA between east and west is not going to happen. AOL sued saying it was a DFR for USAPA to negotiate a change and not include the NIC award. I believe a judge agreed with USAPA, and even stated that USAPA had a legitimate union purpose to negotiate away the original T/A that included the NIC.


Now for the AA guys that might scan through this, a question for you. With the NIC, Every West pilot can hold Capt. So if that is the list used to merger with AA, then instead of 2500 capts, there are 3300 capts. I.E. relative position should place every West F/O above EVERY AA F/O.

Sounds fair right?

It doesn't matter if it sounds fair or not to you. It matters what the 3 neutral arbitrators think. You can always deny the award (again) and run away like spoiled children (again), or you can read the award and see why those 3 people decided your fate the way they did. It's a gamble, but outsiders that have nothing to gain other than their normal fee, will look at it and decide what is fair.

The new ALPA merger policy (after DL/NW merger) has status and category, but now also includes "longevity." That could prevent some new Capts from going ahead of a 15 year FO. Too bad you guys left ALPA.

And will the first 3 upcoming arbitrators agree with Judge Silver, or with the NIC award done by one of their previous peers? Why would they allow the dropping of a binding arbitration award? If they did, they would be acknowledging that what they award has no "teeth" and can be abandoned by the side with the larger majority, every time. Would they want that? Uhhhhhh nooooo....

When this process ends, USAPA will be gone, and that means only individual or groups of Easties could try to disagree or sue if they don't like it. In the meantime, everyone will abide by your eventual award, and that will be priceless.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[RJLoser]

The Protocol Agreement for one.

I don't think any date is listed in the PA as the "snapshot" date.
On page 6 of the PA it states a "snapshot date" will be determined.
The 12/9/13 is just the seniority lists. Read the end of page 4 and the beginning of page 5.

GL.. The announcement date was 2/13.

 

[General Lee]

The Protocol Agreement for one.

Ask the AirTran guys about their "process agreement." It was similar to yours, and it stated that if both sides couldn't come to a mutual agreement about Seniority List integration, that arbitration would be used. That never happened for some reason.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

I don't think any date is listed in the PA as the "snapshot" date.

GL.. The announcement date was 2/13.

Then I have a feeling that that one will be used.


Bye Bye---General Lee