What is the best way to find corprate job

[lineflyer1]

I am an ATP 9000hrs TT 4100 hrs PIC part 121 with no corporate time. EMB 145 B737 typed. What is the best way to find cororate job openings?

 

[AZ Typed]

You know already: Network. This may mean taking a crappy gig just to "break" into the airport you'd want to call home. Corporate guys are not fond of 121 guys, making the transition even tougher. Attitude is everything in corporate simply because in most corporate gigs you don't just show up and fly. Often, you'll be flight planning, coordinating passenger needs, dealing department budgets, maintenance, etc. And, doing all of this with a smile and positive attitude. Network right, have a great attitude, and you'll be sitting left seat in a NICE corporate jet in no time.

AZ T

 

[Fly91]

I am an ATP 9000hrs TT 4100 hrs PIC part 121 with no corporate time. EMB 145 B737 typed. What is the best way to find cororate job openings?

Don't take this as a negative question at all, just curious:

How old are you?

Where do you want to live?

 

[say again]

I'm looking as well. HS-125 typed, 5500hrs, 1200 pic, 121/135 experience. It's tough out there. I do have a few connections that just don't seem to be working out. It's all about who you know, for the most part.

 

[sleepy]

Offer to pay for your own training, or better yet just go out and buy a type. They also like it when you work for free to build experience. Offer to wash the plane and do odd jobs around the owner's house like mowing his grass and cleaning the pool. This should help.

 

[say again]

Offer to pay for your own training, or better yet just go out and buy a type. They also like it when you work for free to build experience. Offer to wash the plane and do odd jobs around the owner's house like mowing his grass and cleaning the pool. This should help.

HAHAHA!!!!!

 

[Freight Dog]

121 time and B737 rating?

Unless your spouse is a chief pilot or the owner is a family member... Might as well buy a lottery ticket. Very similar odds...

 

[matthewjohn]

I second the above. Dont considder the department if any of the above are requirements. For starters see if youd even like a corp job. Do not plan anything, because you will not be able too; live on a pager 24/7 with no GT days off (ever except your Sun-Sat week of vacation), Read the rule book (ops manual) and know that that stuff only applies on good days under no pressure, and will be tossed when the trip needs to go, be ok with 16+ hr duty days and no rest requirement, learn that everyone has their own version of standardization. Basically everything opposite of 121 flying. I made the move 3 years ago and it has been a rough change.

 

[AZ Typed]

I second the above. Dont considder the department if any of the above are requirements. For starters see if youd even like a corp job. Do not plan anything, because you will not be able too; live on a pager 24/7 with no GT days off (ever except your Sun-Sat week of vacation), Read the rule book (ops manual) and know that that stuff only applies on good days under no pressure, and will be tossed when the trip needs to go, be ok with 16+ hr duty days and no rest requirement, learn that everyone has their own version of standardization. Basically everything opposite of 121 flying. I made the move 3 years ago and it has been a rough change.

Not true. Some gigs do reflect that, don't take them. The charter industry has been cleaned up a lot (still not perfect). A 91 only gig typically has none of the traits discussed above. Their are good gigs out there, but you may have to put up with a few mediocre gigs to make it to the sweet spot.

 

[sleepy]

I second the above. Dont considder the department if any of the above are requirements. For starters see if youd even like a corp job. Do not plan anything, because you will not be able too; live on a pager 24/7 with no GT days off (ever except your Sun-Sat week of vacation), Read the rule book (ops manual) and know that that stuff only applies on good days under no pressure, and will be tossed when the trip needs to go, be ok with 16+ hr duty days and no rest requirement, learn that everyone has their own version of standardization. Basically everything opposite of 121 flying. I made the move 3 years ago and it has been a rough change.

There are a lot of jobs like this, but you can do better. Work for a department that has a recognized safety management system in place (like IS-BAO). It's still not as tight as Part 121 because you don't have the FAA oversight, but it is pretty close with the standardization.

 

[Fly91]

I am an ATP 9000hrs TT 4100 hrs PIC part 121 with no corporate time. EMB 145 B737 typed. What is the best way to find cororate job openings?

When you say corporate job I take it as Part 91. I don't look at Part 135 as a corporate job, they just use corporate jets. Unless you know someone you won't get into a GOOD Part 91 gig. Maybe if you offer to pay for a type rating you could get into a good Part 91 job right off the bat, but I actually don't know of a single Part 91 operator, around here anyway, that cares if pilots offer to pay for their own types. All the operators I know of pay for types and only interview you by in-house referral.

So, if you don't mind flying Part 135 (YIKES!) for a couple years, its pretty easy to find a job, especially if you're willing to pay for a type. Then you'll run into that person who will hook you up with a good Part 91 job. My first 91 job was after I was a co-pilot for 10 months. One of the charter customers decided to buy his own plane and took me from that job. Been 91 ever since.

There's a ton of BBJ's down here (South Florida), send resumes to everyone for starters. Sometimes its not "who you know", right place, right time works too.

 

[lineflyer1]

Don't take this as a negative question at all, just curious:

How old are you?

Where do you want to live?

I'm not dead yet! 52, Salt Lake City

 

[lineflyer1]

You know already: Network. This may mean taking a crappy gig just to "break" into the airport you'd want to call home. Corporate guys are not fond of 121 guys, making the transition even tougher. Attitude is everything in corporate simply because in most corporate gigs you don't just show up and fly. Often, you'll be flight planning, coordinating passenger needs, dealing department budgets, maintenance, etc. And, doing all of this with a smile and positive attitude. Network right, have a great attitude, and you'll be sitting left seat in a NICE corporate jet in no time.

AZ T

Why are they not fond of 121 guys? I don't mind working, never have. I know part 121 drivers have everything done for them and I found that I have a neat ability called being able to learn. So I have a good attitude and I can be trained. I have been learning all my life!

 

[say again]

Why are they not fond of 121 guys? I don't mind working, never have. I know part 121 drivers have everything done for them and I found that I have a neat ability called being able to learn. So I have a good attitude and I can be trained. I have been learning all my life!

I know of a few companies that got "screwed" by airline guys getting recalled, or just leaving. I don't think its a matter of learning the ropes, but more of the matter of liking the ropes.

 

[AZ Typed]

Why are they not fond of 121 guys? I don't mind working, never have. I know part 121 drivers have everything done for them and I found that I have a neat ability called being able to learn. So I have a good attitude and I can be trained. I have been learning all my life!

We all know the standard 121 guy doesn't understand customer service and is heavily brainwashed by union rhetoric. I was a former 121 guy, and having seen it from both sides, 91 and 121, I can see the stance that most 91 ops. have on 121 pilots, and I have to say, that stance is accurate in most cases (not all). Regardless, it is what it is...121 experience is not ALL a plus in the corporate world. Don't shoot me, I'm just the messenger. I found that emphasizing the 121 training and flight experience (assuming you're in bad weather, up and down, in complex airspace) is a plus. Also, the 121 standards blow 91 and 135 "standards" out of the water, another strong point for 121. Show corporate folks you want to be a REAL team player, you want to do what it takes (within legal limits), and probably most importantly, you have a life outside of aviation and can get along with the folks you fly with...all few of them, for many many years ahead (vs. flying with a new pilot every month). You can move to 91, it just takes the right connection and attitude, period. you CAN do it.

 

[Fly91]

Why are they not fond of 121 guys? I don't mind working, never have. I know part 121 drivers have everything done for them and I found that I have a neat ability called being able to learn. So I have a good attitude and I can be trained. I have been learning all my life!

I've seen none of the dislike for airline guys who were trying to get into the corporate world. I think its simply more of a dislike of the "I'm God" complex that some airline guys have. They can foget about ever getting into a good corporate job if they show that attitude. And, airline guys have no choice but to do things the corporate way, forget about the airline way. Airline guys are all over the place in the corporate world down here, most good corporate 91 companies have ex-airline pilots as their Chief Pilots and D.O.'s. Almost all of them.

If you're not like that you'll have no problem.

 

[XTW]

Offer to pay for your own training, or better yet just go out and buy a type. They also like it when you work for free to build experience. Offer to wash the plane and do odd jobs around the owner's house like mowing his grass and cleaning the pool. This should help.

You forgot about wiping the struts!


X

 

[lineflyer1]

I've seen none of the dislike for airline guys who were trying to get into the corporate world. I think its simply more of a dislike of the "I'm God" complex that some airline guys have. They can foget about ever getting into a good corporate job if they show that attitude. And, airline guys have no choice but to do things the corporate way, forget about the airline way. Airline guys are all over the place in the corporate world down here, most good corporate 91 companies have ex-airline pilots as their Chief Pilots and D.O.'s. Almost all of them.

If you're not like that you'll have no problem.

Maybe I wasn't there long enough to get the complex..LOL I was regional for 9 years and a major for only 1 year. Maybe I can still be saved.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Its a better time to network than land a job...

There are lots of experienced corp guys looking for work right now. I hate to say it, but without some real good connections, an airline resume might not get very far these days...departments have been closing and there are no doubt more to come. Joe Hedge fund billionaire overnight buy me 2 G550's is a thing of the past.

Keep up the networking (here, BizAvCentral, etc) to be ready when budgets finally get approved and everyone calms down.

Good Luck!

 

[ksu_aviator]

I would do 4 things:

1. Change your resume to reflect your highly developed customer service skills

2. Go onto Indeed.com and do a search. Indeed.com searches all the major job sites for jobs that meet your keywords.

3. Go onto FlightAware.com and see who is departing your local airports and who owns them, then cold call them. Cold calls have a very low percentage of success, but if you offer to submit a resume "just in case something comes up" you'll be suprised to see just how many return calls you get.

4. Go out to the local FBOs and ask the line guys. They know more than anyone about all of the operations.

That last one is probably the most effective.

Good luck!

 

[heywatchthis]

>Hes right

I second the above. Dont considder the department if any of the above are requirements. For starters see if youd even like a corp job. Do not plan anything, because you will not be able too; live on a pager 24/7 with no GT days off (ever except your Sun-Sat week of vacation), Read the rule book (ops manual) and know that that stuff only applies on good days under no pressure, and will be tossed when the trip needs to go, be ok with 16+ hr duty days and no rest requirement, learn that everyone has their own version of standardization. Basically everything opposite of 121 flying. I made the move 3 years ago and it has been a rough change.

He is basically right.

For every good corporate job there are 10 times as many crappy ones. Just like 121, for every good airline job, there are a lot more crappy ones.

A good flying job is a good flying job whether it is part 91, subpartK, part 121, or part 135. The bottom line is there are a lot less good flying jobs these days.

If you can find a better job take it. Dont just think changing from one category to the other will make a different.

 

[CALRepublic]

I bet gigs like this one are harder than Chinesse algebra to get

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Bomb...C_&photo_nr=8&prev_id=1255300&next_id=1149709

 

[fu69atacafyeah]

Offer to pay for your own training, or better yet just go out and buy a type. They also like it when you work for free to build experience. Offer to wash the plane and do odd jobs around the owner's house like mowing his grass and cleaning the pool. This should help.

When you say corporate job I take it as Part 91. I don't look at Part 135 as a corporate job, they just use corporate jets. Unless you know someone you won't get into a GOOD Part 91 gig. Maybe if you offer to pay for a type rating you could get into a good Part 91 job right off the bat, but I actually don't know of a single Part 91 operator, around here anyway, that cares if pilots offer to pay for their own types. All the operators I know of pay for types and only interview you by in-house referral.

So, if you don't mind flying Part 135 (YIKES!) for a couple years, its pretty easy to find a job, especially if you're willing to pay for a type. Then you'll run into that person who will hook you up with a good Part 91 job. My first 91 job was after I was a co-pilot for 10 months. One of the charter customers decided to buy his own plane and took me from that job. Been 91 ever since.

There's a ton of BBJ's down here (South Florida), send resumes to everyone for starters. Sometimes its not "who you know", right place, right time works too.

Buy your own type?? Yeah bring down 91/135 jobs just like those whore$ that accept $18,000 a year to fly an RJ at the regionals. Come on set a new standard...you guys are unreal!

 

[Fly91]

Buy your own type?? Yeah bring down 91/135 jobs just like those whore$ that accept $18,000 a year to fly an RJ at the regionals. Come on set a new standard...you guys are unreal!

Look, people see "paying for your own training" in different ways. My friend sat on his azz for months after he got laid off, once again from a 121 operator. Now he's out for his second trip on the Gulfstream 550 making $1,300 a day. His first 24-day trip paid for his type-rating last month, and now he's making money finally, and alot of it. Should he have just sat on his couch and went down the tubes when he had the money sitting in the bank to buy a type and get back in the game? Thats a pretty stupid way to look at it!!!! Paying for your own training so you can get a job and have a life again is 100% smart.

It would be nice to have a new standard to set out in the market, but IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN, so live with it the way it is or find a new career.

Simple as that really.

 

[Freight Dog]

Buy your own type?? Yeah bring down 91/135 jobs just like those whore$ that accept $18,000 a year to fly an RJ at the regionals. Come on set a new standard...you guys are unreal!

OK... why don't you have ANY 91/135 operator I applied with return my call or reply to my resume? My quals are on the right. I sent over 100 resumes to virtually every SoCal operator. I walked and talked to numbers of operators who frowned the minute they saw Aloha Airlines on my resume - oh, too bad about your airline, but you're not typed in anything we fly, but otherwise, great resume. One guy told me I was "overqualified" to fly a G-II. Another Beechjet operator told me point blank - "my union speaks for me, huh? Didn't you belong to a union at Aloha?" I was floored that he even brought that up.

But hey, I even sent my resume to some AZ and NV operators. I even sent my resume to a PFT operator (WWJ) for virtually any position anywhere with them. They must have tons of resumes from me because they want you to apply for a specific position. Nothing...

So... all I'm asking for is one call back. Just one. Give me a fighting chance without having to go shell out thousands of dollars for a type rating that will at least give me that chance.

Can you do that?

If not... I suggest you count your blessings and give a MEANINGFUL advice to furloughed/laid off airline pilots, along with a thorough interview process about what's expected of him on the 91/135 side.

One call back, buddy! Just one...

 

[reepicheep]

Freight Dog,

You're either in the club, or you're not. As Part 121 pilots, we're not. The only way in is a rock-solid inside connection (that would exclude someone on flightinfo you con into writing you a LOR). Or else build a network from ground zero. Flight instruct or work at Ameriflight and start meeting GA types.

 

[FO4life]

hey, i have 9 years of 135 work. and I cannot find a job. so get bent!!

 

[Fly91]

Freight Dog,

You're either in the club, or you're not. As Part 121 pilots, we're not. The only way in is a rock-solid inside connection (that would exclude someone on flightinfo you con into writing you a LOR). Or else build a network from ground zero. Flight instruct or work at Ameriflight and start meeting GA types.

There's no club in 91/135, its all attitude. Alot of ex-airline pilots over the past 12 years have walked through the doors of places I've flown for. Some got hired on the spot, some get laughed at for weeks after they interviewed because they were simply JERK-OFFS who thought they were GOD because they flew heavier planes than we all did. They think the airlines are the rulers of aviation, yet, they're now coming to the corporate world. Go figure.

I'll tell you, the only problem with hiring someone you don't know is that you do not know their true attitude, personality and habits. Things that you will only learn about well after they get hired. I'd have absolutely no problem recommending an ex-airline pilot as long I knew they weren't a jerk-off. But I have to somewhat know him.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

I agree....No Club at all. Its all about attitude, and some are pretty easy to figure out..

"I flew 7XX at the airlines, I can fly this little citation"

Also, sending blind resumes is pretty worthless. You have to network....

Even more important, when the market is dead (right now) don't plan on getting many calls. Look around - there are tons of guys looking for work today, with tons of corporate experience....what do you expect?

 

[Freight Dog]

All due respect to you G200, but brother... look at your type ratings, then look at mine.

For you to say that if you're an airline guy, it's all about attitude, is at best stating what your department is like, and unfortunately doesn't seem to reflect the realities facing furloughed and former airline pilots trying to find a job flying a bizjet.

This is not to say that you're wrong, just incomplete.