What is the best way to find corprate job

Fly91

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Ok, i'll bite. Such as?

Well, maybe every airliner isn't as "busy" as others, but the 747 had a hell of a long checklist just to get to the runway. LONG LIST!! And once in the air its not just flaps up, gear up and fly, with an "after take-off checklist" with 8 items on it. It was quite extensive with "exact" challenge/response callouts we had to give. Corp jets are not like that. Without comparing a 747 and a Learjet checklist side-by-side, from brake release to level off at cruise altitude....................................


Corporate jets, compared to that is a picnic..
 

Gulfstream 200

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Well, maybe every airliner isn't as "busy" as others, but the 747 had a hell of a long checklist just to get to the runway. LONG LIST!! And once in the air its not just flaps up, gear up and fly, with an "after take-off checklist" with 8 items on it. It was quite extensive with "exact" challenge/response callouts we had to give. Corp jets are not like that. Without comparing a 747 and a Learjet checklist side-by-side, from brake release to level off at cruise altitude....................................


Corporate jets, compared to that is a picnic..

Or maybe newer, more automated corporate jets just don't need huge checklists anymore?

A Learjet checklist is longer than a Global Express...etc..

:confused:
 
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Fly91

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Or maybe newer, more automated corporate jets just don't need huge checklists anymore?

:confused:

Old or new, there's no comparison in the work load between corp jets and airliners. SOP's are a must in 121 turbo-jet ops. If you want to be as safe as possible of course.
 

lawfly

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I can think of 6 after take-off checklist items off the top of my head, for the humble CE-500 series...
At NJA, there are SOPs and I have heard that many blue chip (and other) corporate flight departments have them. Many "professional contract pilots" (contract pilot=self-employed for tax purposes and in business for himself/herself) define the job title as meaning that they purchase their own initial types and their recurrency. (In reality, some might be paid as contract pilots, but work out the training/re-currency details with the party hiring them.) My experience is modest compared to many posting here, but I have been hired by 3 different companies, involving 91, 135, and 91/135 mixed. All 3 that I applied to. So, guess I showed an acceptable attitude or whatever. At one of them, a retired 767 airline guy was one of the senior captains. I've flown with ex-military, civilian (91/135), and former airline. Have seen good attitudes and bad attitudes across all of those backgrounds. When you figure out the sure-fire formula for landing a good (emphasize good) corporate gig, let us know. As someone else posted, 91 and 135 jobs run the gamut. I've been practicing law more than flying (135) this year. I might add that my own preferences are in the direction of bizjets, not airliners. Would rather have a good (emphasize good) corporate gig than practice law (except maybe still do some part-time legal work on the side). A 7X? A 450/550? A Global? A Challenger 300/604/605? My dream machines. More fun than drafting interrogatories...
 
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Fly91

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I can think of 6 after take-off checklist items off the top of my head, for the humble CE-500 series...

Thats right, which equates to about a 5 second "after take-off" checklist. Unlike any airliner checklist.

At NJA, there are SOPs and I have heard that many blue chip (and other) corporate flight departments have them.

The good ones do have them, to some degree. I won't fly without them, its just safer and simply the smart way to operate, no matter how many hours someone has in a certain make/model.

A 7X? A 450/550? A Global? My dream machines. More fun than drafting interrogatories...

The money is good....but until you've sat in a cockpit and stared at a windscreen for 10 hours on the long legs that these aircraft do, you really can't say dream "job". Its the most horrible thing to sit that long. Find a good 91 gig that pays the same as the big aircraft, but with 4 hour work days, thats the dream job.

Interrogatories....how about the never ending pleadings you guys have to write and then you settle? But if you're getting paid by the hour, who cares, right?
 

nwbusdrvr

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Well, maybe every airliner isn't as "busy" as others, but the 747 had a hell of a long checklist just to get to the runway. LONG LIST!! And once in the air its not just flaps up, gear up and fly, with an "after take-off checklist" with 8 items on it. It was quite extensive with "exact" challenge/response callouts we had to give. Corp jets are not like that. Without comparing a 747 and a Learjet checklist side-by-side, from brake release to level off at cruise altitude....................................


Corporate jets, compared to that is a picnic..

Not so sure this statement is true.. The 747-400 has 3 items on the before takeoff check. Flaps, flight controls, and flight instruments. The after takeoff check has 2 items, flaps up, gear up and off. No more checklists until coming through 18000 on the way down. The G550 had about 20 items on the BTO check and nearly as many after the flaps were up. Those Gulfstream lawyers just love covering their butts I guess.
 

Fly91

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Not so sure this statement is true.. The 747-400 has 3 items on the before takeoff check. Flaps, flight controls, and flight instruments. The after takeoff check has 2 items, flaps up, gear up and off. No more checklists until coming through 18000 on the way down. The G550 had about 20 items on the BTO check and nearly as many after the flaps were up. Those Gulfstream lawyers just love covering their butts I guess.

Try a Classic sometime. And all BTO checklists are short, everything has been checked and taken care of except a few items.
 

nwbusdrvr

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Try a Classic sometime. And all BTO checklists are short, everything has been checked and taken care of except a few items.


I thought we were comparing corporate vs. airline types? I think the -400 is a bit more representative of todays airliners (2 crew). As I recall, the engineer is doing the vast majority of the housekeeping on the classic. The BTO check (and for that matter all checklists) on all new Gulfstreams (400-550 series) is longer and way more involved than any airliner I've flown. My point is, haven flown both types (along with lots of others) once the motors are started, my experience is airline types are less busy.
 

Fly91

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I thought we were comparing corporate vs. airline types? I think the -400 is a bit more representative of todays airliners (2 crew). As I recall, the engineer is doing the vast majority of the housekeeping on the classic. The BTO check (and for that matter all checklists) on all new Gulfstreams (400-550 series) is longer and way more involved than any airliner I've flown. My point is, haven flown both types (along with lots of others) once the motors are started, my experience is airline types are less busy.

The majority of airliners and corp jets world-wide are older than dirt.
 
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nwbusdrvr

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The majority of airliners and corp jets world-wide are older than dirt.

well this discussion is really going nowhere. So I guess I'll just leave it at, my experience flying both types of aircraft is not the same as yours.
 

AA717driver

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Just as every airline has its "culture", every flight department has its "personality" (some would add "disorder" to that statement... ;) )

Not every pilot fits in with every culture at an airline--you just get pounded in the mold with a mallet. If you don't fit the culture at a 91 department, you leave or get canned.

Not everyone will fit in every department--nor can they be made to fit. I think a 3 day trip with a couple of the finalists for a job might not be a bad investment.

I do know of a department that wants to put you on a 90 day contract before they hire you permanently. That's quite a gamble if you're leaving another job for that one.

Wait! Am I off topic? I thought with the discussion of LR's v. 747 Classic checklists, this had become a 'free association' discussion on corporate aviation. Sorry. ;) TC

P.S.--The toughest airplane to learn I've experienced is the 767. The most complex is the G550. I was able to learn and operate both despite anchoring the average intelligence bell curve. :D
 

Fly91

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well this discussion is really going nowhere. So I guess I'll just leave it at, my experience flying both types of aircraft is not the same as yours.

I was hoping someone didn't come in here with a specific airplane that has a nice checklist to argue the point, I guess it was coming.

Yup, if you fly a Classic sometime you'll have a much different opinion than the fully automated 744.
 

say again

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Who really cares how long a checklist is?? Some are short, others are long, for both corporate and airliner a/c.
 

Gulfstream 200

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Who really cares how long a checklist is?? Some are short, others are long, for both corporate and airliner a/c.

The checklist is a mute point, this is about who is RIGHT.

as pilots, we are always right, no matter how rediculous the rest of the world considers us.

Now everyone, go count those F'n items on your taxi and after takeoff check and add another page to this argument. Prove your point.

:)
 
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AA717driver

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G200--I'm not really getting your point. Once again, you're being too subtle...

LMAO! :D

TC
 

Bus-Driver

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For what it's worth, I'll jump in here. There really is no difference between a Citation or a regional jet, a gulfstream or a 747. The airlines are required to have very detailed SOP's not only because of FAA oversight, but because the pilots always fly with someone different. When you are a captain who gets placed with a new FO thats on reserve from a different domicile and has little experience you need to know that when you say "wind shear, set max power" he knows exactly what you mean, because he's read the SOP, right? The more pilots you deal with (thousands in most airlines) the more detailed the SOP needs to be.

Corporate jobs on the other hand, while having less FAA oversight, typically have less pilots. Therefore, you most often fly with the same guys, it's much easier to be on the same page and know what the other pilot expects when you have been to sim together and flown together on many occations.

I imagine that the larger a corporate department gets, the more important it is for standardization and an SOP
 

Fly91

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For what it's worth, I'll jump in here. There really is no difference between a Citation or a regional jet, a gulfstream or a 747. The airlines are required to have very detailed SOP's not only because of FAA oversight, but because the pilots always fly with someone different. When you are a captain who gets placed with a new FO thats on reserve from a different domicile and has little experience you need to know that when you say "wind shear, set max power" he knows exactly what you mean, because he's read the SOP, right? The more pilots you deal with (thousands in most airlines) the more detailed the SOP needs to be.

Corporate jobs on the other hand, while having less FAA oversight, typically have less pilots. Therefore, you most often fly with the same guys, it's much easier to be on the same page and know what the other pilot expects when you have been to sim together and flown together on many occations.

I imagine that the larger a corporate department gets, the more important it is for standardization and an SOP

Yes, it is all about SOP's, and this whole "checklist" thing did start out from an SOP issue between corp jets and airliners. My post #39 says exactly that. But somehow, as always, the subject gets lost and things change.

Even I was able to keep it an SOP issue, some dipsh1t would end up changing things anyway.

Its the internet.
 

AbOvo

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Not to break in on your checklist fight but what websites can you guys recommend for networking/professional discussion?
 

Browntothebone

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I've noticed that some of the more reputable corporate flight departments are profiled in Professional Pilot magazine. You should target those companies for hiring.
 
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