What is the best way to find corprate job

[heywatchthis]

>Hes right

I second the above. Dont considder the department if any of the above are requirements. For starters see if youd even like a corp job. Do not plan anything, because you will not be able too; live on a pager 24/7 with no GT days off (ever except your Sun-Sat week of vacation), Read the rule book (ops manual) and know that that stuff only applies on good days under no pressure, and will be tossed when the trip needs to go, be ok with 16+ hr duty days and no rest requirement, learn that everyone has their own version of standardization. Basically everything opposite of 121 flying. I made the move 3 years ago and it has been a rough change.

He is basically right.

For every good corporate job there are 10 times as many crappy ones. Just like 121, for every good airline job, there are a lot more crappy ones.

A good flying job is a good flying job whether it is part 91, subpartK, part 121, or part 135. The bottom line is there are a lot less good flying jobs these days.

If you can find a better job take it. Dont just think changing from one category to the other will make a different.

 

[CALRepublic]

I bet gigs like this one are harder than Chinesse algebra to get

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Bomb...C_&photo_nr=8&prev_id=1255300&next_id=1149709

 

[fu69atacafyeah]

Offer to pay for your own training, or better yet just go out and buy a type. They also like it when you work for free to build experience. Offer to wash the plane and do odd jobs around the owner's house like mowing his grass and cleaning the pool. This should help.

When you say corporate job I take it as Part 91. I don't look at Part 135 as a corporate job, they just use corporate jets. Unless you know someone you won't get into a GOOD Part 91 gig. Maybe if you offer to pay for a type rating you could get into a good Part 91 job right off the bat, but I actually don't know of a single Part 91 operator, around here anyway, that cares if pilots offer to pay for their own types. All the operators I know of pay for types and only interview you by in-house referral.

So, if you don't mind flying Part 135 (YIKES!) for a couple years, its pretty easy to find a job, especially if you're willing to pay for a type. Then you'll run into that person who will hook you up with a good Part 91 job. My first 91 job was after I was a co-pilot for 10 months. One of the charter customers decided to buy his own plane and took me from that job. Been 91 ever since.

There's a ton of BBJ's down here (South Florida), send resumes to everyone for starters. Sometimes its not "who you know", right place, right time works too.

Buy your own type?? Yeah bring down 91/135 jobs just like those whore$ that accept $18,000 a year to fly an RJ at the regionals. Come on set a new standard...you guys are unreal!

 

[Fly91]

Buy your own type?? Yeah bring down 91/135 jobs just like those whore$ that accept $18,000 a year to fly an RJ at the regionals. Come on set a new standard...you guys are unreal!

Look, people see "paying for your own training" in different ways. My friend sat on his azz for months after he got laid off, once again from a 121 operator. Now he's out for his second trip on the Gulfstream 550 making $1,300 a day. His first 24-day trip paid for his type-rating last month, and now he's making money finally, and alot of it. Should he have just sat on his couch and went down the tubes when he had the money sitting in the bank to buy a type and get back in the game? Thats a pretty stupid way to look at it!!!! Paying for your own training so you can get a job and have a life again is 100% smart.

It would be nice to have a new standard to set out in the market, but IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN, so live with it the way it is or find a new career.

Simple as that really.

 

[Freight Dog]

Buy your own type?? Yeah bring down 91/135 jobs just like those whore$ that accept $18,000 a year to fly an RJ at the regionals. Come on set a new standard...you guys are unreal!

OK... why don't you have ANY 91/135 operator I applied with return my call or reply to my resume? My quals are on the right. I sent over 100 resumes to virtually every SoCal operator. I walked and talked to numbers of operators who frowned the minute they saw Aloha Airlines on my resume - oh, too bad about your airline, but you're not typed in anything we fly, but otherwise, great resume. One guy told me I was "overqualified" to fly a G-II. Another Beechjet operator told me point blank - "my union speaks for me, huh? Didn't you belong to a union at Aloha?" I was floored that he even brought that up.

But hey, I even sent my resume to some AZ and NV operators. I even sent my resume to a PFT operator (WWJ) for virtually any position anywhere with them. They must have tons of resumes from me because they want you to apply for a specific position. Nothing...

So... all I'm asking for is one call back. Just one. Give me a fighting chance without having to go shell out thousands of dollars for a type rating that will at least give me that chance.

Can you do that?

If not... I suggest you count your blessings and give a MEANINGFUL advice to furloughed/laid off airline pilots, along with a thorough interview process about what's expected of him on the 91/135 side.

One call back, buddy! Just one...

 

[reepicheep]

Freight Dog,

You're either in the club, or you're not. As Part 121 pilots, we're not. The only way in is a rock-solid inside connection (that would exclude someone on flightinfo you con into writing you a LOR). Or else build a network from ground zero. Flight instruct or work at Ameriflight and start meeting GA types.

 

[FO4life]

hey, i have 9 years of 135 work. and I cannot find a job. so get bent!!

 

[Fly91]

Freight Dog,

You're either in the club, or you're not. As Part 121 pilots, we're not. The only way in is a rock-solid inside connection (that would exclude someone on flightinfo you con into writing you a LOR). Or else build a network from ground zero. Flight instruct or work at Ameriflight and start meeting GA types.

There's no club in 91/135, its all attitude. Alot of ex-airline pilots over the past 12 years have walked through the doors of places I've flown for. Some got hired on the spot, some get laughed at for weeks after they interviewed because they were simply JERK-OFFS who thought they were GOD because they flew heavier planes than we all did. They think the airlines are the rulers of aviation, yet, they're now coming to the corporate world. Go figure.

I'll tell you, the only problem with hiring someone you don't know is that you do not know their true attitude, personality and habits. Things that you will only learn about well after they get hired. I'd have absolutely no problem recommending an ex-airline pilot as long I knew they weren't a jerk-off. But I have to somewhat know him.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

I agree....No Club at all. Its all about attitude, and some are pretty easy to figure out..

"I flew 7XX at the airlines, I can fly this little citation"

Also, sending blind resumes is pretty worthless. You have to network....

Even more important, when the market is dead (right now) don't plan on getting many calls. Look around - there are tons of guys looking for work today, with tons of corporate experience....what do you expect?

 

[Freight Dog]

All due respect to you G200, but brother... look at your type ratings, then look at mine.

For you to say that if you're an airline guy, it's all about attitude, is at best stating what your department is like, and unfortunately doesn't seem to reflect the realities facing furloughed and former airline pilots trying to find a job flying a bizjet.

This is not to say that you're wrong, just incomplete.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

duplicate...

 

[Gulfstream 200]

All due respect to you G200, but brother... look at your type ratings, then look at mine.

For you to say that if you're an airline guy, it's all about attitude, is at best stating what your department is like, and unfortunately doesn't seem to reflect the realities facing furloughed and former airline pilots trying to find a job flying a bizjet.

This is not to say that you're wrong, just incomplete.

There was also a time when I had no type ratings and nothing but a one week stint at a crap regional (I quit)

FWIW 2 of the last 3 pilots we hired had 121 backgrounds, both regional and major. They WERE rec'd internally and did have great attitudes. They have had a little difficulty adapting, but I think will do fine.

I guess my point, aside from the attitude at the interview, is that its tough to land any job, much less
a great job, in a market like todays.

You cant judge your lack of success by todays market - there are many qualified G/GLEX/DA pilots posting daily all over looking for jobs.

Now, if one cant land a job after a period of time in a decent enviornment? - time to look internally (strategy and personality wise) - something is not working.

Good Luck

 

[Fly91]

All due respect to you G200, but brother... look at your type ratings, then look at mine.

For you to say that if you're an airline guy, it's all about attitude, is at best stating what your department is like, and unfortunately doesn't seem to reflect the realities facing furloughed and former airline pilots trying to find a job flying a bizjet.

This is not to say that you're wrong, just incomplete.

A little bit of that attitude that we're talking about is coming out in you right now. Take it easy. It doesn't matter what types you have, if you have a couple types and a descent amount of jet PIC time, its obvious you can fly a plane, any plane. I had only corporate jet time and breezed through my 747 type. And there were a few azzhole airline dickheads that were waiting for me to have a problem. If an ex-airline guy walks into a 91/135 flight department and they're looking for a pilot or two at the time, all they have to do is be like-able, and they'll most likely get hired. Why the hell not hire them. Its not like Part 91/135 operators have a golden rule saying "NO AIRLINE PILOTS." If you think that, then thats your first problem. Only thing I can say to ex-airline guys is: You will be doing things a little differently in the cockpit, so plan on that or don't go corporate.

A pilot is a pilot is a pilot. A jerk-off will most likely always be a jerk-off. Pilots are what we want when we need to hire someone, we don't want jerk-off's.

So, we look for the pilots with good attitudes. If a jerk-off shows up, they have NO chance in hell. I'd rather give up my days off and fly more, rather than sit next to an azzhole or a closet drunk. Not gonna happen.

Nothing wrong with ex-airline guys coming to corporate, just be cool, be a pilot. Thats what operators want.

 

[Cat3C]

jobs

I work for a PT 91 Fortune 50 flight operation and also have flown PT 135. I could care less what the background of the guy (or girl) flying with me as long as several conditions apply (and they are fairly common I think). Be a team player, be a good guy on the road, and don't get me or the company on the front page of the newspaper. We have 91,135, military, and have had 121 (majors) pilots in the department and in the end it really does not matter. Pilots can be trained. After 3 weeks in the sim and groundschool, the plane makes sense. To lump all 91 operations in one pile is a bit strong. Perhaps we are different but yes we have the publications that we all fly in accordance with. They are even signed off by the CEO as well and the pax know the rules. The planes either work or they don't get pushed out of the hanger. And believe me we have had some growing pains with our new ones. We all have ownership of the operation and much to lose if things go wrong.

Obviously there are operations that you would not want to be part of. Just like there are 135 and 121 operations that continuously do things the wrong way. Don't be part of it.

Sorry, rant over. Please don't take offense if I came off the wrong way.

 

[Freight Dog]

There was also a time when I had no type ratings and nothing but a one week stint at a crap regional (I quit)

FWIW 2 of the last 3 pilots we hired had 121 backgrounds, both regional and major. They WERE rec'd internally and did have great attitudes. They have had a little difficulty adapting, but I think will do fine.

I guess my point, aside from the attitude at the interview, is that its tough to land any job, much less
a great job, in a market like todays.

You cant judge your lack of success by todays market - there are many qualified G/GLEX/DA pilots posting daily all over looking for jobs.

Now, if one cant land a job after a period of time in a decent enviornment? - time to look internally (strategy and personality wise) - something is not working.

Good Luck

I agree with you 100% that it's all about good, positive attitude that will get you hired, once you get their attention. I believe that was the original question - how do you get their attention.

As someone else on this board said a few months ago, sell yourself as an employee. The question is how do you get to do that when you don't even get an opportunity to interview, plus often times encounter that anti-airline bias right at "hello" and also question those who ridicule the ones buying their own type ratings to further their careers.

Tough situation.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

I agree with you 100% that it's all about good, positive attitude that will get you hired, once you get their attention. I believe that was the original question - how do you get their attention.

As someone else on this board said a few months ago, sell yourself as an employee. The question is how do you get to do that when you don't even get an opportunity to interview, plus often times encounter that anti-airline bias right at "hello" and also question those who ridicule the ones buying their own type ratings to further their careers.

Tough situation.

Not by sending in resumes...

Best way seems to network with pilots that work there. Some of these websites are a good start. I Have gotten plenty of resumes through these sites, we even wound up hiring a few guys from them. While its still the interent, its a good start. The opportunity to match a name to a face, have a few drinks or lunch etc goes much further than an email resume.

I have met a lot of guys in the industry on here, BizAvCentral, and P-P-W.

But as we have said, dont expect too may openings right now - there isn't many. Budgets are on hold. Be ready for when the positions open up.

In all due respect, you seem to really dwell on the "airline stink" and it might be hurting your outlook? Again, 99% of this is market driven...and you are 100% correct...its a "tough situation" if not impossible right now!

Good Luck FD.

 

[Freight Dog]

Thanks man. I really enjoy reading your posts because they are no nonsense, and to the point.

Gotta tell you though... I've been looking around for a 91/135 gig even while I was still gainfully employed at Aloha. The question back then was... "Are you crazy? Why?!?" I simply told them that I felt corporate/GA flying was a much better fit for me having experienced it in a King Air 350 than airline flying. I liked having more responsibilities than just hangin' a left, loading up the box, doing the walkaround and blast off across the ocean. Don't get me wrong... it was the easiest job in the world, but also mind-numbing at the same time. As a younger guy, I *WANT* responsibility, I *WANT* the challenge and an opportunity to rise to the occasion.

Well... needless to say, while Aloha was around... some people looked at me like WTF is wrong with this guy to want to leave a cush 121 gig for GA? That was the feedback I got. Now, that Aloha is no more, it's the "your union speaks your you, right?" or "Well, we had a few hundred other airline pilots apply here, and while your resume looks great, you're not type rated in what we fly."

That's been my frustration all along, and unlike many of my counterparts, I've actually been trying to get out of the airline flying well before any shutdowns or layoffs were even being mentioned.

Do I dwell on it? To a point, yeah I think so, but it's more sharing the frustration than anything else. But like I said, I really enjoy reading your posts and sharing your advice with people. If you're ever in LAS, beer's on me!

 

[contrail67]

I've seen none of the dislike for airline guys who were trying to get into the corporate world. I think its simply more of a dislike of the "I'm God" complex that some airline guys have. They can foget about ever getting into a good corporate job if they show that attitude. And, airline guys have no choice but to do things the corporate way, forget about the airline way. Airline guys are all over the place in the corporate world down here, most good corporate 91 companies have ex-airline pilots as their Chief Pilots and D.O.'s. Almost all of them.

If you're not like that you'll have no problem.

Each airline does things a different way...I am sure a corporate flight department has some standards too,right? The "I'm God" attitude usually fails ANY interview.

 

[Fly91]

Each airline does things a different way...I am sure a corporate flight department has some standards too,right? The "I'm God" attitude usually fails ANY interview.

Good question/comment.

Oh yeah, corporate (91) flight departments definitely have SOP's, not all of them, but all the ones I've been with have some level of SOP's. I've flown Part 121 and the SOP's their were much more involved and detailed. There's a whloe lot more going on with an airliner than with any corporate jet though.

The "I'm GOD" attitude should fail any interview. They should have their licenses/ratings revoked too. There's no room in any kind of aviation operation for these total cheeseballs. All they are are liabilities waiting to happen, and they will happen at some point to some degree.


.

 

[FurloughedAgain]

There's a whloe lot more going on with an airliner than with any corporate jet though.

Ok, i'll bite. Such as?